[minutes] Internationalization telecon 2024-07-18

https://www.w3.org/2024/07/18-i18n-minutes.html





text version:

                              – DRAFT –
            Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

18 July 2024

    [2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.

       [2] 
https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/b40424a9-1664-4b61-965c-27712bb6a648/20240718T150000/
       [3] https://www.w3.org/2024/07/18-i18n-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Addison, Atsushi, Bert, Fuqiao, JcK, Richard

    Regrets
           -

    Chair
           Addison Phillips

    Scribe
           Bert

Contents

     1. [4]Agenda Review
     2. [5]Action Items
     3. [6]Info Share
     4. [7]RADAR Review
     5. [8]Pending Issue Review
     6. [9]More FPWDs in the pipeline
     7. [10]String-Meta PR
     8. [11]String-Meta PR
     9. [12]PR Review
    10. [13]AOB?
    11. [14]Summary of action items
    12. [15]Summary of resolutions

Meeting minutes

   Agenda Review

   Action Items

    <addison> #111

    <gb> [16]Action 111 publish qa-direction-native to website
    after addison finishes the tweak (on xfq) due 2024-07-18

      [16] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/111

    <addison> close #111

    <gb> Closed [17]issue #111

      [17] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/111

    <addison> #106

    <gb> [18]Action 106 write to ietf group about rfc9457 (on
    aphillips) due 2024-06-20

      [18] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/106

    <addison> #93

    <gb> [19]Action 93 create best practices for consumers in
    string-meta (on aphillips) due 2024-04-25

      [19] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/93

    <addison> #90

    <gb> [20]Action 90 steal some of henri's text from
    scroll-to-text-fragment for string-search (on aphillips) due
    2024-04-18

      [20] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/90

    <addison> #89

    <gb> [21]Action 89 update i18n specs to support dark mode (on
    xfq) due 2024-04-18

      [21] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/89

    <addison> #79

    <gb> [22]Action 79 schedule a follow-up call with WHATNOT in
    ~April (on aphillips) due 2024-03-07

      [22] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/79

    <addison> #78

    <gb> [23]Action 78 compare infra to i18n-glossary export list
    and report back (on aphillips) due 2024-03-07

      [23] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/78

    <addison> #33

    <gb> [24]Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG
    for further review (on aphillips)

      [24] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33

    <addison> #8

    <gb> [25]Action 8 Follow up on the status of Canvas and
    formatted text (on aphillips) due 18 Jul 2023

      [25] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/8

    <addison> #7

    <gb> [26]Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting
    comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin,
    r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023

      [26] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/7

    <addison> #4

    <gb> [27]Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the
    character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on aphillips,
    r12a) due 27 Jul 2023

      [27] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4

   Info Share

   RADAR Review

    <addison> [28]https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1

      [28] https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1

   Pending Issue Review

    <addison> #1882

    <gb> Issue 1882 not found

    <addison> [29]i18n-activity#1882

      [29] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1882

    <gb> [30]Issue 1882 Programmatically determine language of
    proper names and technical terms (by xfq) [pending]
    [t:lang_strings] [wg:ag] [s:wcag2ict]

      [30] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1882

    <xfq> [31]https://www.w3.org/TR/
    wcag2ict-22/#applying-sc-3-1-2-language-of-parts-to-non-web-doc
    uments-and-software

      [31] 
https://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2ict-22/#applying-sc-3-1-2-language-of-parts-to-non-web-documents-and-software

    xfq: Not sure why they mention proper names and technical terms
    as exceptions that can not be in a determined language

    addison: I thought of heuristic detection of language. Names
    makes such detections less accurate.
    … Language detection has gotten better, with machine learning.
    … If you want people's names pronounced correctly, you should
    wrap them in metadata.

    xfq: Their definition seems quoted from WCAG 2, which is a Rec.
    But we can file an issue.
    … They may be talking more about language declaration than
    about detection.

    addison: But you can mark names with a language, too.

    r12a: I think it is about getting the language somehow from the
    context. Getting it from markup seems perfectly well
    determined.
    … I think it is about ways the browser can find out the
    language.

    addison: Still the question is why that text is in the spec.

    r12a: They may be trying to make an allowance for language
    being determined in other ways than from markup.

    <xfq> [32]https://www.boia.org/blog/
    what-programmatically-determined-means-for-accessibility

      [32] 
https://www.boia.org/blog/what-programmatically-determined-means-for-accessibility

    addison: Maybe we should ask them what they want to accomplish,
    if the text means what we think it does, and what the list of
    exceptions is doing.

    xfq: I'll ask what the goal of the paragraph is and what the
    "programmatically determined" phrase means.

    addison: And ask why they think names need to be an exception

   More FPWDs in the pipeline

    <r12a> ethi-lreq ED

    <r12a> geor-lreq ED

    <r12a> grek-lreq ED

    <r12a> cyrl-lreq ED

    <r12a> cyrl-gap ED

    <r12a> guru-lreq ED

    <r12a> taml-lreq ED

    <r12a> jpan-lreq ED

    <r12a> kore-lreq ED

    <r12a> mong-lreq ED

    <r12a> tibt-lreq ED

    r12a: Looking to publish these ^^.
    … There will be more drafts, but this is today's list.

    <addison> PROPOSED: publish the above 11 script resources
    documents as FPWD?

    r12a: The names are now "XXX script resources".

    <addison> +1

    <atsushi> +1

    +1

    <xfq> +1

    <r12a> +1

    <JcK> +1

    <Bert> +1

    RESOLUTION: publish 11 script resources documents ("lreq") as
    FPWD

    r12a: We're about to publish drafts for cyrillic for the first
    time.

    xfq: We don't have requirements docs for cyrillic, do we?

   String-Meta PR

    r12a: Nor for a number of others.

    <addison> [33]https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/aphillips/
    string-meta/pull/87.html#bp-consumers

      [33] 
https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/aphillips/string-meta/pull/87.html#bp-consumers

    r12a: For Atsushi: I raised an issue on jlreq.

    atsushi: Yes, I found the link and will bring to meeting next
    week.

    r12a: The issue is about pointing out to the jl TF that these
    drafts are being made.

    atsushi: @@ "jlreq-d" document.

    r12a: Just consider that the final jlreq-d might benefit from
    having the same structure as the others, That's what the issue
    is about.
    … I'm restructering elreq as well.

    atsushi: Let me think about it.

    r12a: It doesn't make a difference if I publish jlreq docs on
    Tuesday or later.

    ACTION: atsushi: investigate changes to jlreq due to
    publication of jpan-lreq

    <gb> Created [34]action #112

      [34] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/112

   String-Meta PR

    <addison> [35]https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/aphillips/
    string-meta/pull/87.html#bp-consumers

      [35] 
https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/aphillips/string-meta/pull/87.html#bp-consumers

    <addison> [36]w3c/string-meta#87

      [36] https://github.com/w3c/string-meta/pull/87

    <gb> [37]Pull Request 87 Create best practices for consumers
    (by aphillips)

      [37] https://github.com/w3c/string-meta/pull/87

    addison: I made the changes. Fuqiao published the article it
    refers to.
    … Can I merge this? We can always change more.

    xfq: You have updated example 8?

    addison: Yes, removed the red box. And notation moved up.
    … Added a HR (actually 3 stars) as separator.
    … OK, merged.
    … Probably need to update specdev next, to match.

   PR Review

    <addison> [38]w3c/i18n-drafts#581

      [38] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/pull/581

    <gb> [39]Pull Request 581 Initial work on language-negotiation
    materials (by aphillips)

      [39] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/pull/581

    addison: Do we want more iteration on this ^^ ?

    xfq: It is clearer than before.
    … Can probably convert it to HTML., if we have no major
    comments on it.

    <r12a> [40]https://www.w3.org/International/
    articlelist#navigating

      [40] https://www.w3.org/International/articlelist#navigating

    r12a: HAven't had time to read it, but main concern is that it
    plays well with our other material, see ^^, and point to it.
    … There is also already articles about language negotiation
    ther, e.g.
    … Don't get people confused.

    <r12a> Guiding users to translated pages

    <r12a> Using <select> to Link to Localized Content

    <r12a> Indicating the language of a link destination

    <r12a> When to use language negotiation

    <r12a> Apache MultiViews language negotiation set up

    <r12a> Setting language preferences in a browser

    <r12a> Accept-Language used for locale setting

    JcK: I'm adding my comments on GitHub.
    … A little bit concerned about the comment on privacy vs our
    recommendations

    addison: The doc doesn't talk about privacy at the moment.
    … We should mention it.

    JcK: Some users will be sensitive to the information being
    collected.

    xfq: We have an article about locale settings. We could mention
    privacy there too.
    … See the last article on Richard's list above.

    JcK: In general there is personalization of web pages on one
    hand and privacy on the other, not just in case of i18n.

    addison: I'll watch for comments for another week and make
    proposals for how to handle existing comments.

    r12a: Tutorials in general link to articles. You can write "go
    and see this article".

    addison: Unicode will have Unicode Technical Workshop 2.
    … A bit like a Unicode Conference, but different.
    … I proposed a topic.
    … I'm looking for coauthors, contributors.

    <addison> [41]https://github.com/unicode-org/message-format-wg/
    blob/main/exploration/bidi-usability.md

      [41] 
https://github.com/unicode-org/message-format-wg/blob/main/exploration/bidi-usability.md

   AOB?

    addison: Anything else?

    <xfq> [42]w3c/string-meta#4

      [42] https://github.com/w3c/string-meta/issues/4

    <gb> [43]Issue 4 TAG discussion pointer (by r12a)

      [43] https://github.com/w3c/string-meta/issues/4

    xfq: This string meta issue ^^ is a pointer to a TAG
    discussionm which is closed.
    … We might want to close our issue, too.

    r12a: Sounds good.

    addison: Do want another TAG review of string meta? We changed
    direction somewhat since we last told them what we wanted to
    do.

    xfq: We converted some text from the explainer to the main
    document. Do we want them to review the main document?

    addison: It seems like we should get a horizontal review.

    xfq: Yes, could be useful.

    addison: I'll close this issue and make one for tracking
    review.

    JcK: Probable regrets for next week.

Summary of action items

     1. [44]atsushi: investigate changes to jlreq due to
        publication of jpan-lreq

Summary of resolutions

     1. [45]publish 11 script resources documents ("lreq") as FPWD

Received on Friday, 19 July 2024 04:38:53 UTC