- From: Fuqiao Xue <xfq@w3.org>
- Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2024 15:30:53 +0800
- To: www-international@w3.org
https://www.w3.org/2024/03/28-i18n-minutes.html
text version:
– DRAFT –
Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
28 March 2024
[2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.
[2]
https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/6d544156-352c-46f2-b6ec-383b4e2462fb/20240328T150000/
[3] https://www.w3.org/2024/03/28-i18n-irc
Attendees
Present
Addison, Bert, JcK, Richard, xfq
Regrets
-
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
xfq
Contents
1. [4]Agenda Review
2. [5]Action Items
3. [6]Info Share
4. [7]RADAR Review
5. [8]Pending Issue Review
6. [9]FPWD of Khmer Layout Requirements
7. [10]MathML review
8. [11]RFC9457 and string-meta
9. [12]String-meta best practices for producers
10. [13]Specdev changes to support IDNs
11. [14][Tanych/accept-language] I18N objections to reducing
accept-language
12. [15]AOB?
13. [16]Summary of action items
14. [17]Summary of resolutions
Meeting minutes
Agenda Review
Action Items
<addison> #85
<gb> [18]Action 85 send a note to privacy folks saying we did a
review with notes about i18n (on aphillips) due 2024-03-28
[18] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/85
<addison> #84
<gb> [19]Action 84 follow up on i18n-glossary#51 (on r12a) due
2024-03-21
[19] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/84
r12a: re #84, I wrote what I think we should do in the issue
and somebody needs to do it
<addison> #82
<gb> [20]Action 82 publish khmer lreq with new format (on r12a)
due 2024-03-21
[20] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/82
<addison> #79
<gb> [21]Action 79 schedule a follow-up call with WHATNOT in
~April (on aphillips) due 2024-03-07
[21] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/79
<addison> #78
<gb> [22]Action 78 compare infra to i18n-glossary export list
and report back (on aphillips) due 2024-03-07
[22] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/78
<addison> #77
<gb> [23]Action 77 create an issue against html requesting the
list of named entities based on work in action 73 (on r12a) due
2024-03-07
[23] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/77
<r12a> [24]w3c/i18n-activity#1841
[24] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1841
<gb> [25]Issue 1841 Request for additional named entities for
invisible/ambiguous characters (by r12a) [pending] [s:html]
[t:char_ref]
[25] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1841
r12a: re #77, I have created a pending issue for people to look
at
<addison> #76
<gb> [26]Action 76 propose best practices for producers and for
examples in specs in string-meta (on aphillips) due 2024-03-07
[26] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/76
<addison> #75
<gb> [27]Action 75 work on developing new specdev material
about IDNs/domain names/etc. (on xfq) due 2024-02-29
[27] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/75
<addison> #43
<gb> [28]Action 43 pull together the list of win/mac/etc apis
for setting base direction and/or language (on aphillips) due
2023-09-18
[28] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/43
<addison> #33
<gb> [29]Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG
for further review (on aphillips)
[29] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33
<addison> #12
<gb> [30]Action 12 Upgrade/edit the explainer to address issues
raised by google (on aphillips) due 18 Jul 2023
[30] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/12
addison: re #12, I think I'm done editing the explainer
<addison> #8
<gb> [31]Action 8 Follow up on the status of Canvas and
formatted text (on aphillips) due 18 Jul 2023
[31] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/8
addison: we can review it again together in an upcoming call
<addison> #4
<gb> [32]Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the
character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on r12a) due
27 Jul 2023
[32] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4
<r12a> [33]w3c/respec#4462
[33] https://github.com/w3c/respec/issues/4462
<gb> [34]Issue 4462 Provide a shortcut for typing character
markup (by r12a) [Feature request]
[34] https://github.com/w3c/respec/issues/4462
r12a: re #4, seems to be potentially making some progress, see
^
Info Share
JcK: more colors and cuter fonts in the new IRC client
RADAR Review
[GB 18030 discussions]
<addison> [35]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
[35] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
Pending Issue Review
<addison> [36]w3c/i18n-activity#1841
[36] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1841
<gb> [37]Issue 1841 Request for additional named entities for
invisible/ambiguous characters (by r12a) [pending] [s:html]
[t:char_ref]
[37] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1841
FPWD of Khmer Layout Requirements
<r12a4> [38]https://w3c.github.io/sealreq/khmer/indexnew.html
[38] https://w3c.github.io/sealreq/khmer/indexnew.html
addison: r12a, you want to propose the first draft note of the
Khmer Layout Requirements, correct?
r12a: correct
<r12a4> [39]https://w3c.github.io/sealreq/khmer/index.html
[39] https://w3c.github.io/sealreq/khmer/index.html
r12a: see ^
addison: we need to vote on publishing this
<xfq> +1
<addison> +1
<r12a4> +1
<Bert> +1
<JcK> 0
<r12a4> [40]https://w3c.github.io/tlreq/index.html
[40] https://w3c.github.io/tlreq/index.html
<JcK> Have not been able to find time to review
RESOLUTION: publish Khmer Layout Requirements as FPWD
<r12a4> [41]https://w3c.github.io/tlreq/indexnew.html
[41] https://w3c.github.io/tlreq/indexnew.html
r12a: here's another link for Tibetan
… I'm doing the same for Tibetan
… I realised that I wasn't gonna put the links at the bottom of
the section
… I was going to put them at the top of the section
… because that's more useful and clear
MathML review
addison: cool. Thank you.
<addison> [42]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/
issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending+label%3As%3Amathm
l
[42]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is:issue+is:open+label:pending+label:s:mathml
<addison> #1834
<gb> Issue 1834 not found
<addison> [43]w3c/i18n-activity#1834
[43] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1834
<gb> [44]Issue 1834 Clarify note on single character of mi as
italic (by himorin) [pending] [s:mathml] [wg:math]
[44] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1834
Bert: about #1834, it's not quite clear what the spec is saying
… whether it's a letter
… as far as I'm concerned, the example is allowed to be a
little less precise than the normative text
<JcK> Richard, once the Tibetan version is ready to be made a
bit more public, I probably have a lead on good reviewers who
read and write the language daily are are very concerned about
it.
<addison> ... On text nodes containing a single characters
(after whitespace has been removed)...
Bert: @@1
<addison> [45]w3c/i18n-activity#1837
[45] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1837
<gb> [46]Issue 1837 lspace/rspace have confusing names (by
bert-github) [pending] [s:mathml]
[46] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1837
Bert: the lspace and rspace attributes in mathml are very old
… they're already in the first mathml which is 20+ years old
… they are now logical
… so we could add a note to say that it's not physical
<Bert> [47]https://www.w3.org/TR/mathml-core/#layout-of-mrow
[47] https://www.w3.org/TR/mathml-core/#layout-of-mrow
Bert: 2 possible places, the first intro of the attributes
… or how it is laid out
<addison> [48]w3c/i18n-activity#1838
[48] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1838
<gb> [49]Issue 1838 Whether/when to mirror operators (by
bert-github) [pending] [s:mathml]
[49] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1838
addison: objections?
Bert: certain operators are mirrored in rtl formulas
… mathml doesn't mention this
<addison> [50]w3/i18n-activity#1839
[50] https://github.com/w3/i18n-activity/issues/1839
<gb> Issue 1839 not found
<addison> [51]w3c/i18n-activity#1839
[51] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1839
<gb> [52]Issue 1839 Define that (and how) glyph assemblies are
mirrored in rtl formulas (by bert-github) [pending] [s:mathml]
[52] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1839
Bert: @@2
… There is a document on the Unicode site
[53]https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2022/
22026r-non-bidi-mirroring.pdf
[53] https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2022/22026r-non-bidi-mirroring.pdf
Bert: from Kent Karlsson
… from 2 years ago
ACTION: addison: ping the UTC about the status of the mirroring
proposal
<gb> Created [54]action #86
[54] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/86
Bert: talks exactly about these extension characters
… but I haven't found any other reference to that
<addison> [55]w3c/i18n-activity#1840
[55] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1840
<gb> [56]Issue 1840 Explain the mapping tables (appendix C) (by
bert-github) [pending] [s:mathml]
[56] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1840
Bert: the MathML3 spec and the MathML Core spec are not
consistent
… it's a bit unclear
… my question is what are those tables for
… are they indeed for that purpose and why
… if so, why doesn't the spec say that they are for that
purpose?
… why are those tables are there?
RFC9457 and string-meta
<addison> RFC9457 defines a JSON (and alternate XML) structure
for returning error information. Seems like they could follow
our guidance in string-meta and include lang/dir metadata in
the document. They do provide for localization externally by
doing language negotiation off of Accept-Language, but it seems
criminal not to tell the recipient what language
<addison> was negotiated??
addison: RFC 9457 describes a JSON structure and separately in
XML for responding with additional info when an error is
produced
… for example, if you produce the forbidden HTTP response it
could include human readable description of what was forbidden
and why
… like your password was wrong or something like that
… that standard does not include any language or direction
annotation for the human language strings
… it seems like it ought to
… there doesn't seem to be a reason not to provide it
ACTION: addison: write to IETF ADs about RFC9457 with JcK's
assistance
<gb> Created [57]action #87
[57] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/87
<addison> rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9457.html
String-meta best practices for producers
<addison> [58]w3c/string-meta#86
[58] https://github.com/w3c/string-meta/pull/86
<gb> [59]Pull Request 86 Add best practices for writing
examples and for producers (by aphillips)
[59] https://github.com/w3c/string-meta/pull/86
<addison> [60]https://
deploy-preview-86--string-meta.netlify.app/#bp-producers
[60]
https://deploy-preview-86--string-meta.netlify.app/#bp-producers
addison: I had an action item to write best practices for
writing examples and for producers
… I welcome comments on it
Specdev changes to support IDNs
<addison> [61]w3c/bp-i18n-specdev#128
[61] https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/128
<gb> [62]Pull Request 128 New section about IDNs (by xfq)
[62] https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/128
<addison> [63]https://
deploy-preview-128--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#idn
[63] https://deploy-preview-128--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#idn
[Tanych/accept-language] I18N objections to reducing accept-language
xfq: not ready for review yet
<addison> [64]Tanych/accept-language#10 (comment)
[64]
https://github.com/Tanych/accept-language/issues/10#issuecomment-2018872665
<gb> [65]Issue 10 I18N objections to reducing accept-language
(by aphillips)
[65] https://github.com/Tanych/accept-language/issues/10
addison: some time ago, there's a proposal to reduce
accept-language to a single value
<addison> [66]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/
public-i18n-core/2024JanMar/0114.html
[66]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2024JanMar/0114.html
addison: I was actioned at some point to reply to them saying
we don't think that's a great idea
… with 2 comments
… safari users can only have one language preference
… the second comment is: can you give me any site or code
example to understand better about the accept-language use
cases for i18n?
<r12a-webkit> [67]https://www.w3.org/International/
articlelist#navigating
[67] https://www.w3.org/International/articlelist#navigating
addison: do we have an article about language negotiation
somewhere?
… I haven't looked at it in a while
r12a-webkit: there's a bunch of stuff here ^
… there is even an article called Accept-Language used for
locale setting
addison: the stuff here hasn't been updated in a while
addison: I have a long thing that I wrote outside of standards
land about language negotiation
… which with only a little bit of work could probably be
adapted appropriately
… I don't have time right now, though
r12a-webkit: why do they want to do that?
xfq: to reduce fingerprinting
addison: the A-L header is potentially a fingerprinting vector
because if you put enough things in it, it could be unique
AOB?
xfq: @@
Summary of action items
1. [68]addison: ping the UTC about the status of the mirroring
proposal
2. [69]addison: write to IETF ADs about RFC9457 with JcK's
assistance
Summary of resolutions
1. [70]publish Khmer Layout Requirements as FPWD
Received on Friday, 29 March 2024 07:30:54 UTC