- From: Fuqiao Xue <xfq@w3.org>
- Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2024 15:00:11 +0800
- To: www-international@w3.org
https://www.w3.org/2024/03/14-i18n-minutes.html
text version:
– DRAFT –
Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
14 March 2024
[2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.
[2]
https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/6d544156-352c-46f2-b6ec-383b4e2462fb/20240314T150000/
[3] https://www.w3.org/2024/03/14-i18n-irc
Attendees
Present
Addison, atsushi, Bert, JcK, r12a, xfq
Regrets
-
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
addison, xfq
Contents
1. [4]Agenda Review
2. [5]Action Items
3. [6]Info Share
4. [7]RADAR Review
5. [8]Pending Issue Review
6. [9]Discontinuing simple-ruby
7. [10]New lreq doc format
8. [11]Old version of LTLI
9. [12]I18N Glossary
10. [13]AOB?
11. [14]Summary of action items
Meeting minutes
Agenda Review
Action Items
<addison> gb, list open actions
<gb> Found actions in w3c/i18n-actions: #80, #79, #78, #77,
#76, #75, #74, #72, #68, #53, #43, #35, #33, #18, #16, #12,
#11, #8, #7, #4
<addison> #80
<gb> [15]Action 80 reply to Lisa about A11Y-I18N CG proposal
(on aphillips) due 2024-03-14
[15] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/80
<addison> #79
<gb> [16]Action 79 schedule a follow-up call with WHATNOT in
~April (on aphillips) due 2024-03-07
[16] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/79
addison: will do #80 today
<addison> #78
<gb> [17]Action 78 compare infra to i18n-glossary export list
and report back (on aphillips) due 2024-03-07
[17] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/78
addison: #79, I'll goto find the issues for next month's call
<addison> #77
<gb> [18]Action 77 create an issue against html requesting the
list of named entities based on work in action 73 (on r12a) due
2024-03-07
[18] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/77
addison: #78, will discuss later
<addison> #76
<gb> [19]Action 76 propose best practices for producers and for
examples in specs in string-meta (on aphillips) due 2024-03-07
[19] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/76
r12a: #77, not done yet
<addison> #75
<gb> [20]Action 75 work on developing new specdev material
about IDNs/domain names/etc. (on xfq) due 2024-02-29
[20] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/75
<addison> #74
<gb> [21]Action 74 ask korean folks about text-autospace and
hangul (on xfq) due 2024-02-27
[21] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/74
<addison> close #74
<gb> Closed [22]issue #74
[22] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/74
<addison> #72
<gb> [23]Action 72 update specdev to match string-meta with
string/block direction as appropriate (on aphillips) due
2024-02-22
[23] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/72
<addison> #68
<gb> [24]Action 68 follow up with florian about testing with
kindle (on aphillips) due 2024-01-25
[24] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/68
<addison> #53
<gb> [25]Action 53 come up with a set of information CSS want
the i18n group to provide support for generic font families (on
frivoal, fantasai) due 2023-11-01
[25] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/53
<addison> #43
<gb> [26]Action 43 pull together the list of win/mac/etc apis
for setting base direction and/or language (on aphillips) due
2023-09-18
[26] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/43
<addison> #35
<gb> [27]Action 35 make the edits of CSS #5478 (on fantasai)
due 2023-08-30
[27] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/35
<addison> #33
<gb> [28]Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG
for further review (on aphillips)
[28] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33
<addison> #18
<gb> [29]Action 18 Have informal explanation sessions about
counter style translations with csswg members (on frivoal,
fantasai) due 18 Jul 2023
[29] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/18
<addison> #16
<gb> [30]Action 16 Keep track of line-breaking in Korean for
i18n-discuss#11 (on aphillips) due 1 Jan 2024
[30] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/16
<addison> #12
<gb> [31]Action 12 Upgrade/edit the explainer to address issues
raised by google (on aphillips) due 18 Jul 2023
[31] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/12
<addison> #11
<gb> [32]Action 11 Triage all css properties to determine which
are logical, physical, or na by default (on frivoal) due 18 Jul
2023
[32] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/11
<addison> #8
<gb> [33]Action 8 Follow up on the status of Canvas and
formatted text (on aphillips) due 18 Jul 2023
[33] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/8
<addison> #7
<gb> [34]Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting
comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin,
r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023
[34] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/7
<addison> #5
<gb> [35]CLOSED Action 5 Check into how to list questions at
the top of a digest and/or improve lang enablement
communications (on r12a) due 25 Jul 2023
[35] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/5
<addison> #4
<gb> [36]Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the
character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on r12a) due
27 Jul 2023
[36] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4
Info Share
r12a: I will try and remember to do #4 next week
Bert: xfq sent me an email about the history of i18n activity
… I'm collecting the dates
addison: I'll be interested to see what you come up with
… many happenings dating to the late nineties in the group
RADAR Review
<addison> [37]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
[37] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
addison: we have a new request
… Privacy Principles
… this might be super amusing
… 'be sure you never do anything to allow locale to be stripped
off'
Pending Issue Review
<addison> [38]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/
issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending
[38]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is:issue+is:open+label:pending
addison: [39]w3c/i18n-activity#1835 is actually a PR related to
a comment that we have
[39] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1835
<gb> [40]Issue 1835 Explicitly specify binary encoding for
string truncation (by w3cbot) [pending] [tracker] [s:webauthn]
[40] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1835
addison: related to truncation
… that's still in progress
<addison> [41]w3c/i18n-activity#1834
[41] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1834
<gb> [42]Issue 1834 Clarify note on single character of mi as
italic (by himorin) [pending] [s:mathml]
[42] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1834
addison: you're welcome to look at that
[43]w3c/i18n-activity#1834
[43] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1834
atsushi: it's a minor point within their note
… This transformation is via `text-transform: math-auto` and is
to apply the italic table but not applying italic style
… but it's not clear from their spec
addison: do they mean single character?
… they say 'single letter'
… but I can imagine the letter having an accent on it
… and therefore be 2 code points
atsushi: this is the point I want to discuss with the group
addison: what is 'italic table'?
[44]https://www.w3.org/TR/2023/
WD-mathml-core-20231127/#italic-mappings
[44]
https://www.w3.org/TR/2023/WD-mathml-core-20231127/#italic-mappings
atsushi: it's common in maths and physics
… similar character used in mathematical formula
addison: OK
… and they have a mapping for the Unicode code points
… they need to clarify this
addison: anybody else got a comment?
Discontinuing simple-ruby
addison: since we're gonna do a full review when Bert is done
… we can hold this for now
addison: we have a request from Kida-san
… the JL-TF wants to stop maintaining it
… and want to publish effectively a tombstone version of it
… with some sort of box in it that says we've stopped
developing this
… florian sent a reply to that request
… saying you don't wanna kill the document
<addison> [45]https://www.w3.org/TR/simple-ruby/
[45] https://www.w3.org/TR/simple-ruby/
addison: there might be valuable content
… it is a note track document
… and the note track does not have a discontinued state like
the rec track
… but we have other notes that we published in the past that
have some sort of big red box at the top saying
… this isn't being maintained anymore
… Unicode in XML is an example
… the document is a subset of ruby that we said is simple
… it can say 'here is a description of simple ruby, work is
underway to provide a more complete model'
… if something else comes out later
… we can come back and change what that note says
… 'this is now a historical document. look over here for more
info'
ACTION: addison: write to kida-san about publishing simple-ruby
as note with appropriate status text
<gb> Created [46]action #81
[46] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/81
JcK: that seems right to me
New lreq doc format
<r12a> [47]https://w3c.github.io/sealreq/khmer/
indexnew.html#h_lines_and_paragraphs
[47]
https://w3c.github.io/sealreq/khmer/indexnew.html#h_lines_and_paragraphs
r12a: taking things a little further than I had last week
<r12a> [48]https://www.w3.org/TR/typography/#fonts
[48] https://www.w3.org/TR/typography/#fonts
r12a: I started putting the links to the orthography notes and
other relevant documents into a list format
… and realized that actually we could do something quite useful
here
… we have another document called the Language enablement index
… I don't know how many people actually look at that document
… but I certainly keep forgetting to update it
… so now I'm doing something similar in the lreq documents, and
it allows more granular information or specific information
that you can look up quite easily
<r12a> [49]https://www.w3.org/TR/typography/#fonts
[49] https://www.w3.org/TR/typography/#fonts
r12a: I think it's much easier to remember to update these
links
… in the fonts section above
… forget about the Chinese and Hangul Layout requirements for
the time being, I'll come back to that in a sec
… you have a list very much like we have in the Khmer document
… that would make it much easier to maintain the typography
thing without duplicating work
… for clreq/jlreq/alreq, we may or may not add these list of
links
… in which case they might still have some links in the
typography index
… but what I'm talking about in particular here is for the new
lreq documents
… like Khmer
… and Mongolian, Ethiopic, possibly Korean
… if you look at section 6.2 [50]https://w3c.github.io/sealreq/
khmer/indexnew.html#h_phrase
… it says 'See Ishida, Cambodian (Khmer) Orthography
Notes/Phrase & section boundaries.'
… I don't think that's the best approach
[50] https://w3c.github.io/sealreq/khmer/indexnew.html#h_phrase
addison: this looks automatable
r12a: a large part of it, yes
addison: a bunch of the links here are generic links
… and you could have a little piece of JSON to say here's the
specific things
r12a: yes
… it's also easy to have a flat document
… from a template
… and then all you have to do is to add the labels into the
right places
… that's actually one of the problems with the typography index
at the moment is that the date is driven through JS
… as it's getting bigger
… it's becoming more of a problem to maintain the date in a
separate file from the index page itself
ACTION: richard: publish khmer lreq with new format
<gb> Created [51]action #82
[51] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/82
addison: any comments?
r12a: I propose that I complete the Khmer lreq document
… and then publish that
Old version of LTLI
r12a: will do similar thing to the Tibetan lreq
[52]https://www.w3.org/International/core/langtags/
[52] https://www.w3.org/International/core/langtags/
<addison> xfq: I found an old version of LTLI via a search
engine
<addison> ... this page ^^
<addison> ... was searching for 'language-range' on google
<addison> ... seems like an early draft version
<addison> ... since we have one on TR, propose we add a big red
box pointing at LTLI
addison: if it weren't a cool URL, we would delete it with
extreme prejudice
… but since it exists, we might even consider hollowing it and
just have a big red box
… or a permanent redirect to LTLI
… I don't think this document serves any purpose except to
confuse people
… this was a draft document
ACTION: xfq: replace the old core/langtags document with a
redirect and some appropriate text blurb
<gb> Created [53]action #83
[53] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/83
I18N Glossary
addison: we have definitions and some of them have similar
… but the nature of theirs and our glossary don't match
… I owe this group a more detailed analysis
… I think we want to do that sooner rather than later
… so that we have have a follow up discussion with them
… the key disconnect is that they're married to the JS string
… when they refer to code units and such
… we had a discussion with RDF-star about this
… @@ byte-wise truncation of HTTP headers
… when doing truncation the terminology in Infra doesn't quite
match ours
… so that's the status
… I have a side thing
… we talked about a couple of PRs last time
… one of them is planes and blocks
… the other is variation selector
<atsushi> +1
addison: should we merge the variation selector PR?
… let's merge it
[54]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-glossary/issues
[54] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-glossary/issues
[55]w3c/i18n-glossary#70
[55] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-glossary/issues/70
addison: we have some issues open
<gb> [56]Issue 70 Definition of cursive scripts (by xfq)
[enhancement]
[56] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-glossary/issues/70
[xfq explains the issue]
addison: my comments was the existing text doesn't claim to be
exhaustive
… but the problem is you have to always have an alert in your
brain so when a new script emerges in the Unicode standard and
it happens to be cursive
… you have to go back here and complete the list
… there may be other things already in Unicode that are not in
that list
[57]w3c/i18n-glossary#51
[57] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-glossary/issues/51
<gb> [58]Issue 51 About Tashkil : long vowel marks are called
Madd. (by ntounsi) [enhancement]
[58] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-glossary/issues/51
addison: shall we leave it alone?
… do we need to say that the list is not exhaustive?
xfq: I'm OK with closing this issue with no changes
addison: OK
addison: #51 is a comment from Najib about long vowel marks
<gb> [59]CLOSED Action 51 inform fuqiao and richard what to
name the string-meta-2 repo (on aphillips) due 2023-10-12
[59] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/51
addison: about Tashkil
… does somebody wanna take this on?
… r12a, you provided a long comment about it
r12a: this is not a manual about how to write Arabic or
anything like that
… I would have to read the current definition again and think
about what Najib is adjusting
addison: is there a better home for some of this information
r12a: you find it everywhere you look
… Wikipedia and my orthography notes
… it's probably in alreq too
… which is another reason you don't necessarily need to put it
there
ACTION: richard: follow up on [60]i18n-glossary#51
[60] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-glossary/issues/51
<gb> Created [61]action #84
[61] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/84
AOB?
<r12a> #84 note: [62]w3c/i18n-glossary#51
[62] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-glossary/issues/51
<gb> [63]Issue 51 About Tashkil : long vowel marks are called
Madd. (by ntounsi) [enhancement]
[63] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-glossary/issues/51
<gb> [64]Action 84 follow up on i18n-glossary#51 (on r12a) due
2024-03-21
[64] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/84
Summary of action items
1. [65]addison: write to kida-san about publishing simple-ruby
as note with appropriate status text
2. [66]richard: publish khmer lreq with new format
3. [67]xfq: replace the old core/langtags document with a
redirect and some appropriate text blurb
4. [68]richard: follow up on i18n-glossary#51
Received on Friday, 15 March 2024 07:00:13 UTC