[minutes] Internationalization telecon 2024-01-25

https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-i18n-minutes.html





text version:

                              – DRAFT –
            Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

25 January 2024

    [2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.

       [2] 
https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/6d544156-352c-46f2-b6ec-383b4e2462fb/20240125T150000/
       [3] https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-i18n-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Addison, atsushi, Bert, Fuqiao, JcK, Richard

    Regrets
           -

    Chair
           Addison Phillips

    Scribe
           xfq

Contents

     1. [4]Agenda Review
     2. [5]Action Items
     3. [6]Info Share
     4. [7]RADAR Review
     5. [8]Pending Issue Review
     6. [9]Publish WD of timezone to TR
     7. [10]Prep for WHATWG Call
     8. [11]AOB?

Meeting minutes

   Agenda Review

   Action Items

    <gb> Found actions in w3c/i18n-actions: #69, #68, #67, #66,
    #65, #64, #53, #47, #43, #35, #33, #18, #16, #12, #11, #8, #7,
    #4

    <addison> #69

    <gb> [12]Action 69 ask PLH to add a WG feature to the gh bot
    (on aphillips) due 2024-01-25

      [12] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/69

    <addison> close #69

    <gb> Closed [13]action #69

      [13] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/69

    <addison> #68

    <gb> [14]Action 68 follow up with florian about testing with
    kindle (on aphillips) due 2024-01-25

      [14] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/68

    <addison> #67

    <gb> [15]Action 67 add some comments to CSS #8511 (on r12a) due
    2024-01-23

      [15] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/67

    <addison> close #67

    <gb> Closed [16]action #67

      [16] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/67

    <addison> #66

    <gb> [17]Action 66 fix base direction vs. paragraph direction
    in string-meta (on aphillips) due 2024-01-18

      [17] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/66

    <addison> #65

    <gb> [18]Action 65 contact Daniel and check the Ethiopic word
    boundary situation (on r12a) due 2023-12-26

      [18] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/65

    addison: we can discuss #66 if we have time today

    <addison> #64

    <gb> [19]Action 64 Make list of HTML issues for February 22
    call with WHATWG (on aphillips, xfq)

      [19] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/64

    <addison> #53

    <gb> [20]Action 53 come up with a set of information CSS want
    the i18n group to provide support for generic font families (on
    frivoal, fantasai) due 2023-11-01

      [20] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/53

    <addison> #47

    <gb> [21]Action 47 make the CSSWG aware of Warichu (on frivoal)
    due 2023-10-04

      [21] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/47

    <addison> #43

    <gb> [22]Action 43 pull together the list of win/mac/etc apis
    for setting base direction and/or language (on aphillips) due
    2023-09-18

      [22] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/43

    <addison> #35

    <gb> [23]Action 35 make the edits of CSS #5478 (on fantasai)
    due 2023-08-30

      [23] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/35

    <addison> #33

    <gb> [24]Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG
    for further review (on aphillips)

      [24] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33

    <addison> #18

    <gb> [25]Action 18 Have informal explanation sessions about
    counter style translations with csswg members (on frivoal,
    fantasai) due 18 Jul 2023

      [25] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/18

    <addison> #16

    <gb> [26]Action 16 Keep track of line-breaking in Korean for
    i18n-discuss#11 (on aphillips) due 1 Jan 2024

      [26] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/16

    <addison> #12

    <gb> [27]Action 12 Upgrade/edit the explainer to address issues
    raised by google (on aphillips) due 18 Jul 2023

      [27] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/12

    <addison> #11

    <gb> [28]Action 11 Triage all css properties to determine which
    are logical, physical, or na by default (on frivoal) due 18 Jul
    2023

      [28] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/11

    <addison> #8

    <gb> [29]Action 8 Follow up on the status of Canvas and
    formatted text (on aphillips) due 18 Jul 2023

      [29] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/8

    <addison> #7

    <gb> [30]Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting
    comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin,
    r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023

      [30] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/7

    <addison> #4

    <gb> [31]Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the
    character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on r12a) due
    27 Jul 2023

      [31] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4

   Info Share

    r12a: Sid might work on this in March

    addison: I'm gonna have a MessageFormat open house
    … on Feb 20
    … I'll post the details

    r12a: I have a request for Bert
    … we can raise an issue on IRC and it will go to GitHub issue
    list
    … add a comment to a GitHub issue
    … for action 23, add blah blah blah comment

    Bert: that is possible

    <Bert> gb, help note

    <gb> Bert, the command "note #nn: text" or

    <gb> … "note yyy#nn: text" or "note xxx/yyy#nn: text" tells

    <gb> … me to add some text to GitHub issue nn in repository
    xxx/yyy.

    <gb> … The colon(:) is optional. If you omit xxx or xxx/yyy, I
    will

    <gb> … find the repository in my list of repositories.

    <gb> … You can also use a URL: "note [32]https://gith.../
    issues/nn text"

      [32] https://gith../issues/nn

    <gb> … See also "gb, help use" for creating a list of
    repositories.

    <gb> … Aliases: comment, note.

    <gb> … Example: note #71: This is related to #70.

    Bert: you have to explicitly name the issue or the number that
    you want to add the comment

    r12a: oh, so you can already do it

    Bert: you can, yes

    <Bert> gb, help?

    <gb> Bert, I am a bot to look up and create GitHub issues and

    <gb> … action items. I am an instance of GHURLBot 0.3.

    <gb> … Try "gb, help commands" or

    <gb> … see [33]https://w3c.github.io/GHURLBot/manual.html

      [33] https://w3c.github.io/GHURLBot/manual.html

    [34]https://w3c.github.io/GHURLBot/manual.html#comment

      [34] https://w3c.github.io/GHURLBot/manual.html#comment

   RADAR Review

    <addison> [35]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

      [35] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

    addison: Bitstring Status List v1.0
    … another VC spec
    … unless anyone objects I'll take this one

   Pending Issue Review

    <addison> [36]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/
    issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending

      [36] 
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is:issue+is:open+label:pending

    [37]w3c/i18n-activity#1815

      [37] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1815

    <gb> [38]Issue 1815 Discuss i18n-glossary and Infra
    harmonization (by aphillips) [pending] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG]
    [s:infra]

      [38] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1815

    addison: I had to revert exporting UTF-8
    … because exporting it reminded us of why we didn't have it
    exported before
    … if conflicts with a definition in Encoding
    … so I created an issue in our repo to check
    … WHATWG people believe that Infra should be used by everyone
    … as we've discussed previously, that turns out not to work

    <addison> [39]w3c/i18n-activity#1813

      [39] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1813

    <gb> [40]Issue 1813 I18N Considerations needed? (by aphillips)
    [pending] [needs-resolution] [s:vc-bitstring-status-list]

      [40] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1813

    addison: for some people

    addison: about #1813, they have an I18N Considerations section

    <gb> [41]Issue 1813 [not found]

      [41] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/1813

    addison: which points to another I18N Considerations section

    <addison> [42]w3c/i18n-activity#1812

      [42] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1812

    <gb> [43]Issue 1812 Encoding of `statusListIndex` (by
    aphillips) [pending] [s:vc-bitstring-status-list] [non-I18N]

      [43] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1812

    addison: @@
    … let's close this

    addison: it's not really an i18n issue
    … maybe a little bit
    … "expressed as a string" should be encoded a bit more clearly
    … In particular, is the number decimal or hex?
    … it will be an i18n-tracker issue

   Publish WD of timezone to TR

    <addison> [44]w3c/timezone

      [44] https://github.com/w3c/timezone

    <addison> [45]https://w3c.github.io/timezone/

      [45] https://w3c.github.io/timezone/

    <addison> [46]https://www.org/TR/timezone

      [46] https://www.org/TR/timezone

    <addison> [47]https://www.w3.org/TR/timezone/

      [47] https://www.w3.org/TR/timezone/

    r12a: the www.org link used to always work for me on my Mac and
    it doesn't seem to be working anymore

    addison: the note was published in 2011
    … I'd like to obsolete the note and start having the ED to be
    the /TR version

    r12a: we're not gonna create a new document altogether

    addison: no

    xfq: any particular update you'd like to do for the new
    version?

    addison: Temporal hasn't landed at JS
    … IETF sedate is still not quite landed
    … so there's some time
    … I'm not satisfied with all the text 100%
    … nothing is sacred in this version yet, but I think it's
    complete enough that people could point back to it
    … and we have issues with people like HTML

    r12a: is there anything in the old version that hasn't migrated
    to the new version but should have done?

    addison: everything in the old version is somewhere here
    … maybe rewritten, but it's all here

    r12a: there are a bunch of guidelines
    … do we have all those still intact?

    addison: they all fitted into mustard somewhere

    addison: I can double check that

    r12a: you probably need a 'History of this document' section as
    well
    … to see what's changed

    addison: OK
    … Acknowledgements has a little bit of history
    … I'll make another pass
    … do you want to review it again?

    JcK: I'll review it
    … do you want me to just send you a note?

    addison: yes, please

   Prep for WHATWG Call

    <addison> [48]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/
    issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3AAgenda%2BI18N%2BWHATWG

      [48] 
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is:issue+is:open+label:Agenda+I18N+WHATWG

    <addison> [49]w3c/i18n-activity#778

      [49] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/778

    <gb> [50]Issue 778 Validating internationalized mail addresses
    in ____________________ (by himorin) [tracker] [s:html]
    [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG]

      [50] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/778

    <addison> [51]w3c/i18n-activity#954

      [51] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/954

    <gb> [52]Issue 954 Fix #4562: add support for internationalized
    email addresses (by w3cbot) [tracker] [s:html]
    [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG]

      [52] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/954

    <addison> [53]w3c/i18n-activity#955

      [53] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/955

    <gb> [54]Issue 955 Add &nnbsp; entity for U+202F (by w3cbot)
    [tracker] [s:html] [i:encoding] [spec-type-issue] [mlreq]
    [alreq] [hlreq] [amlreq] [afrlreq]
    [i:inline_features_punctuation] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG]

      [54] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/955

    addison: #955 about adding new named entities to HTML

    <gb> [55]Issue 955 [not found]

      [55] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/955

    addison: I want the EAI issue finished
    … I believe we all think HTML wants to land is a string with an
    @ sign an possibly a dot
    … maybe you're checking the right hand side for domain-ish

    JcK: I would certainly rather have a relatively opaque syntax

    <addison> [56]w3c/i18n-activity#1575

      [56] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1575

    <gb> [57]Issue 1575 A tag to display date and/or time to the
    user in his preferred format. (by w3cbot) [tracker] [s:html]
    [t:loc_time] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG]

      [57] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1575

    addison: #1575 is about displaying dates and times

    <gb> [58]Issue 1575 [not found]

      [58] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/1575

    addison: what I would like to see is that they provide the same
    kind of controls @@
    … which is lang
    … recreating that disaster is not something we would want to
    have happen

    <addison> [59]w3c/i18n-activity#1645

      [59] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1645

    <gb> [60]Issue 1645 ____________________ : Time vs. duration
    (by w3cbot) [tracker] [s:html] [t:loc_time]
    [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG]

      [60] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1645

    addison: #1645 is sort of the same thing

    <gb> [61]Issue 1645 [not found]

      [61] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/1645

    addison: except that they want to allow people to enter
    durations

    <addison> [62]w3c/i18n-activity#1590

      [62] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1590

    <gb> [63]Issue 1590 For attributes which can contain a mix of
    languages, provide markup for language of parts (by w3cbot)
    [tracker] [s:html] [t:bidi_markup]
    [t:markup_elements_attributes] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG]

      [63] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1590

    addison: @@hour cycle@@

    addison: it's about providing markup and attributes for
    language

    <addison> [64]whatwg/html#8280

      [64] https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/8280

    <gb> [65]Issue 8280 For attributes which can contain a mix of
    languages, provide markup for language of parts (by ChasBelov)
    [i18n-tracker]

      [65] https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/8280

    addison: what do we want to do here?

    r12a: it's an issue
    … the question is what the solution would be
    … I can think of a couple of possibilities
    … one is to allow more than one @@
    … that's kind of complicated
    … the other one would be to allow markup inside alt
    … which is also probably not gonna fly

    addison: solve corner cases
    … because it's not very common that you need to have multiple
    alt
    … @@2
    … do we want to have a separate issue for that?
    … separate issue for tagging attributes with a language

    r12a: we actually solved the problem with XHTML 2
    … but HTML5 doesn't have it

    JcK: I remember discussion about a very similar set of issues

    <addison> [66]w3c/i18n-activity#1691

      [66] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1691

    addison: we can discuss it with them

    <gb> [67]Issue 1691 "The directionality of an attribute of an
    HTML" seems weird? (by w3cbot) [tracker] [s:html]
    [t:bidi_markup] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG]

      [67] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1691

    <addison> [68]whatwg/html#9146

      [68] https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/9146

    <gb> [69]Issue 9146 "The directionality of an attribute of an
    HTML" seems weird? (by fantasai) [i18n-tracker]

      [69] https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/9146

    addison: this one is from fantasai
    … I haven't read it that deeply but it looks like something we
    might care about

    <addison> [70]w3c/i18n-activity#1697

      [70] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1697

    <gb> [71]Issue 1697 Specify expected behavior for when users
    change input field directionality (by w3cbot) [tracker]
    [s:html] [t:bidi_markup] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG]

      [71] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1697

    addison: here's another one from last year
    … which is about contenteditable

    xfq: if the user changes the language of the input field, what
    will happen?

    r12a: I don't think the issue is about input fields
    … it's about how to control direction in elements that are set
    to contenteditable

    <addison> [72]w3c/i18n-activity#1743

      [72] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1743

    <gb> [73]Issue 1743 Disabled dates for input type=date (by
    w3cbot) [tracker] [s:html] [t:loc_time] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG]

      [73] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1743

    r12a: the issue is about when you're typing text into
    contenteditable
    … how do you manage direction then?

    <addison> [74]w3c/i18n-activity#1815

      [74] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1815

    <gb> [75]Issue 1815 Discuss i18n-glossary and Infra
    harmonization (by aphillips) [pending] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG]
    [s:infra]

      [75] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1815

    addison: I'll remind everyone that we have a TAG issue open
    … because we recommend the polar opposite of what they do
    … about UTF-16 code unit strings
    … my recollection from the RDF conversation was they couldn't
    use Infra
    … because thier definition is incompatible with things like XML
    … so they don't want to take the definitions from Infra
    … couple of challenges
    … one is our glossary like all of our documents is not
    normative
    … which is probably good, because we change it a lot
    … but we do face things where people want to reference to our
    thing and it's not normative
    … @@3
    … I have nothing against Infra
    … but I don't think it's complete for our needs

    xfq: and sometimes our definition explains things more clearly

    addison: we put a lot of effort in that
    … we can discuss this with them in a phone call
    … we have 66 issues against HTML
    … i'm not tagging them all with agenda+
    … we have only a vanishingly small number of needs-resolution
    issues and they're pretty old
    … almost everything else is tracker
    … and we might want to think about which of these we want to
    promote

   AOB?

    addison: anything else you guys want to do today?

    [adjourned]

Received on Friday, 26 January 2024 02:34:40 UTC