[minutes] Internationalization telecon 2024-06-27

https://www.w3.org/2024/06/27-i18n-minutes.html





text version:

                              – DRAFT –
            Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

27 June 2024

    [2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.

       [2] 
https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/b40424a9-1664-4b61-965c-27712bb6a648/20240627T150000/
       [3] https://www.w3.org/2024/06/27-i18n-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Addison, atsushi, Bert, Fuqiao, JcK, Richard

    Regrets
           -

    Chair
           Addison Phillips

    Scribe
           Bert, xfq

Contents

     1. [4]Agenda Review
     2. [5]Action Items
     3. [6]Info Share
     4. [7]RADAR Review
     5. [8]Publishing Urdu counter styles PR
     6. [9]Latin Layout Requirements and DPUB Pagination
     7. [10]I18N-glossary vs. Infra
     8. [11]String-Meta Consumer Best Practices
     9. [12]AOB?

Meeting minutes

   Agenda Review

   Action Items

    <addison> #110

    <gb> [13]Action 110 create new latin lreq document to host dpig
    contents (on r12a) due 2024-06-27

      [13] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/110

    r12a: I've been working on the latin lreq
    … I spent quite a lot of time today working on it
    … it takes a while

    <addison> #109

    <gb> [14]Action 109 reply to pub folk about updating
    dpub-latinreq to point to our (new) document (on aphillips) due
    2024-06-27

      [14] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/109

    <addison> close #109

    <gb> Closed [15]issue #109

      [15] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/109

    <addison> #107

    <gb> [16]Action 107 write an issue about quote auto behavior
    for non-q elements (on frivoal) due 2024-06-25

      [16] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/107

    <addison> #106

    <gb> [17]Action 106 write to ietf group about rfc9457 (on
    aphillips) due 2024-06-20

      [17] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/106

    <addison> #105

    <gb> [18]Action 105 Review
    https://deploy-preview-87--string-meta.netlify.app/#bp-consumer
    s (on r12a) due 2024-06-13

      [18] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/105

    r12a: Done!

    <addison> close #105

    <gb> Closed [19]issue #105

      [19] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/105

    <addison> #104

    <gb> [20]Action 104 follow up on action#4 by writing an email
    (on aphillips) due 2024-06-13

      [20] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/104

    <addison> close #104

    <gb> Closed [21]issue #104

      [21] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/104

    addison: Respec/bikeshed markup thing. I volnteered r12a and
    myself to review pull requests.

    <addison> #93

    <gb> [22]Action 93 create best practices for consumers in
    string-meta (on aphillips) due 2024-04-25

      [22] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/93

    <addison> #90

    <gb> [23]Action 90 steal some of henri's text from
    scroll-to-text-fragment for string-search (on aphillips) due
    2024-04-18

      [23] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/90

    <addison> #89

    <gb> [24]Action 89 update i18n specs to support dark mode (on
    xfq) due 2024-04-18

      [24] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/89

    <addison> #79

    <gb> [25]Action 79 schedule a follow-up call with WHATNOT in
    ~April (on aphillips) due 2024-03-07

      [25] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/79

    addison: I will check when the next call is, probably in 2
    weeks.

    <addison> #78

    <gb> [26]Action 78 compare infra to i18n-glossary export list
    and report back (on aphillips) due 2024-03-07

      [26] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/78

    addison: I made a set of pending issues against Infra for
    things in conflict between our two documents

    <addison> #33

    <gb> [27]Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG
    for further review (on aphillips)

      [27] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33

    addison: We have some needs-attention issues still open.

    <addison> #8

    <gb> [28]Action 8 Follow up on the status of Canvas and
    formatted text (on aphillips) due 18 Jul 2023

      [28] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/8

    <addison> #7

    <gb> [29]Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting
    comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin,
    r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023

      [29] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/7

    <addison> #4

    <gb> [30]Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the
    character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on aphillips,
    r12a) due 27 Jul 2023

      [30] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4

   Info Share

    r12a: I did a bidi webinar on Tuesday. Seems to have gone well.
    Muchr bigger attention than in past two years.
    … 175 was previous record, now 370 registered. 176 or so turned
    up.
    … Another scheduled for August. Topic not yet decided.
    … I suggested we hold a 3rd webinar, about creating content
    that might become localized in to arabic etc.
    … about markup, CSS, etc.
    … I might do that as a W3C employee then, rather than as
    myself.
    … Got good publicity.

    addison: Recorded?

    <xfq> r12a++

    r12a: Yes, it will be on Youtube.

   RADAR Review

    <addison> [31]https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1

      [31] https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1

    addison: No new incoming requests

    xfq: I also reviewed HTML ruby, and found no other issues.

   Publishing Urdu counter styles PR

    <addison> [32]w3c/predefined-counter-styles#64

      [32] https://github.com/w3c/predefined-counter-styles/pull/64

    <gb> [33]Pull Request 64 index: Add Urdu styles (by r12a)

      [33] https://github.com/w3c/predefined-counter-styles/pull/64

    r12a: Any objections to publishng ^^ ?
    … i.e., merge and put on /TR.

    addison: Chnages seem more involved than just style.

    r12a: Correct. I'm waiting for objections. There are some
    notes. About alphabetic counters, e.g.
    … I've been waiting for a couple of months but got no reactions
    from CDAC

    [34]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
    Centre_for_Development_of_Advanced_Computing

      [34] 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_for_Development_of_Advanced_Computing

    r12a: CDAC is not the ministry, but they tend to work together.
    How do I describe them?
    … And it is apparently "C-DAC" with a hyphen.

    addison: So, shall I merge it?

    r12a: Let me first make the chnage xfq suggested.
    … It is C-DAC in some places, but not all, not in the logo.

   Latin Layout Requirements and DPUB Pagination

    r12a: Halfway through creating a template for them.

   I18N-glossary vs. Infra

    <addison> [35]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/
    issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending+label%3As%3Ainfra

      [35] 
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is:issue+is:open+label:pending+label:s:infra

    addison: Let's walk through this ^^
    … Infra spec defines core terminalogy for WHATWG. And they've
    been promoting it also for W3C specs.

    <addison> [36]i18n-activity#1875

      [36] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1875

    <gb> [37]Issue 1875 Byte descriptions vs. character
    descriptions (by aphillips) [pending] [needs-resolution]
    [s:infra] [whatwg]

      [37] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1875

    addison: They have code point string. They strip away some of
    the core jargon that we have in our spec. Some issues have to
    do with that.
    … They have some specification for how to include byte and
    character inclusions, and it is different from ours.
    … E.g., the namse for characters they chose are not the Unicode
    names (for bytes).

    <addison> [38]i18n-activity#1876

      [38] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1876

    <gb> [39]Issue 1876 Whatwg vs. I18N character styling (by
    aphillips) [pending] [needs-resolution] [s:infra] [whatwg]

      [39] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1876

    r12a: We might tell them we have ways to do that.

    addison: Ours is very systematic and we are adding it to
    Respec.

    r12a: They might not ne impressed.

    addison: They should at least allow it, even if they don't
    adopt it for HTML.

    r12a: I don't think it is an issue. But whatn is an issue is
    that they don't use the UNicode names.
    … E.g., when they say "... followed by left parenthis", it is
    not actually a left paren, it is an opening paren.

    JcK: When somebody is reading in order to figure out what to
    do, all this terminology variations is a source of confusiom
    and makes things worse. This paren issue is an excellent
    example.
    … Terminology was carefully reviewed and when somebody makes
    something up, because they don't like it...

    addison: The other issues I have are basically about thet. We
    have over the years made a set of jargon.

    <addison> [40]i18n-activity#1877

      [40] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1877

    <gb> [41]Issue 1877 Unicode code point vs. code point (by
    aphillips) [pending] [needs-resolution] [s:infra] [whatwg]

      [41] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1877

    <addison> [42]i18n-activity#1878

      [42] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1878

    <gb> [43]Issue 1878 "code points are characters" (by aphillips)
    [pending] [needs-resolution] [s:infra] [whatwg]

      [43] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1878

    addison: The authors of Infra understand it, but they think
    they can make things easier for their readers.
    … One issue is what code point means. We use it as code point
    in the current character set, they mean it as Unicode code
    point.
    … They also use it to mean UTF-16 code point.
    … We distinguish code point, code units, character,
    … Their definition of character is not clear.
    … We don't use character unless it is unambiguous.

    r12a: ... or unless it is unimportant.

    addison: yes

    xfq: Not so important to convince them about character styling,
    but useful to use the definitions.

    addison: The Infra authors in general understand and use the
    terms in the right places, but others may not understand
    "character" as well.
    … They should use the Unicode names for characters. They are
    standard and wellknown.
    … I don't intend to file these as issues. Should I compile them
    into something, including our present conversation?

    JcK: Give some examples of where confusion comes from.

    addison: I'll draw all of them into a single issues and then we
    can review it next week before presentation.

   String-Meta Consumer Best Practices

    <r12a> [44]https://
    deploy-preview-87--string-meta.netlify.app/#bp-consumers

      [44] 
https://deploy-preview-87--string-meta.netlify.app/#bp-consumers

    r12a: I think the <span> should already be in the "before"
    code, not in the replacement of the variable.
    … We say that in our articles. If you include HTML, you should
    enclose it in bdi or span.
    … But you don't know if the <span> should have dir=rtl or rtl

    addison: I assume that somehow comes from the variable.
    … I see that I need to reformulate the example.

    r12a: The FSI (first strong isolate) is not the right one in
    this example. You should use RLI.

    addison: That's what I do.
    … I cancall out that it produces the wrong result for this kind
    of string.

    addison: How about the rest, the requirements? are they
    correct.

    r12a: I have no comments on those.

    <addison> [45]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/pull/591/files

      [45] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/pull/591/files

    <gb> [46]Pull Request 591 Address comments (by aphillips)

      [46] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/pull/591

    xfq: (I added a preview to the first comment, so you can see it
    better than with netlify.)

    r12a: Best results if you indent the code, and indent the code
    by the same amount of spaces.

    addison: It uses a 2018 style sheet.

    r12a: There is a 2022 style, isn't there?
    … New styles come with new shapes for the document, so not so
    easy to just replace everything.

    xfq: I think we use 2022 style for the new articles.

    r12a: I would be great to be able to point to this article
    soon.

    addison: Yes, I'd like to point to it, too.

    r12a: Publish tomorrow, then?

    addison: Sure, but I'll check the new style sheet first.

    [47]https://www.w3.org/International/i18n-activity/guidelines/
    editing

      [47] 
https://www.w3.org/International/i18n-activity/guidelines/editing

    r12a: Also compare to an article that uses the latest style and
    also the latest markup.

    xfq: ^^ shows templates

    <r12a> [48]w3c/i18n-editors

      [48] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-editors/

    r12a: Also see i18n-editors repo

    <r12a> [49]https://www.w3.org/International/i18n-activity/
    guidelines/editing#files

      [49] 
https://www.w3.org/International/i18n-activity/guidelines/editing#files

   AOB?

    addison: Next week is 4th of July, US holiday. Meeting or not?

    r12a: Gap analysis for Udru scheduled for publishing on
    Tuesday.

    addison: So let's have a meeting next week.

Received on Friday, 28 June 2024 02:44:41 UTC