- From: Fuqiao Xue <xfq@w3.org>
- Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2023 12:24:16 +0800
- To: www-international@w3.org
https://www.w3.org/2023/12/07-i18n-minutes.html
text version:
[1]W3C
[1] https://www.w3.org/
– DRAFT –
Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
07 December 2023
[2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.
[2]
https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/6d544156-352c-46f2-b6ec-383b4e2462fb/20231207T150000/
[3] https://www.w3.org/2023/12/07-i18n-irc
Attendees
Present
Addison, Atsushi, Bert, Fuqiao, Richard
Regrets
JcK
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
addison, xfq
Contents
1. [4]Agenda Review
2. [5]Action Items
3. [6]Info Share
4. [7]RADAR Review
5. [8]Info Share
6. [9]RADAR Review
7. [10]Renaming alreq
8. [11]Needs-Attention issues
9. [12]AOB?
10. [13]Summary of action items
11. [14]Summary of resolutions
Meeting minutes
Agenda Review
<JcK> Hi. Google just dropped a bomb on me that I didn't expect
until at least month's end... have to deal with it and won't be
able to participate in today's meeting. Sorry for short notice.
addison: are there other agenda additions we need to consider?
Action Items
<addison> gb, list open actions
<gb> Found actions in w3c/i18n-actions: #60, #59, #53, #47,
#43, #35, #33, #18, #16, #12, #11, #8, #7, #5, #4
<addison> #60
<gb> [15]Action 60 follow up with dom about github discussion
notifications (on xfq) due 2023-12-07
[15] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/60
<addison> close #60
<gb> Closed [16]action #60
[16] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/60
<addison> fuqiao: done but unfortunately hard to modify
notifications to deal with gh discussions
<r12a> [17]https://github.com/w3c/jlreq-d/discussions/
47#discussioncomment-7777609
[17]
https://github.com/w3c/jlreq-d/discussions/47#discussioncomment-7777609
<addison> ... creating manual process of notifying lists about
new discussions
<r12a> [18]https://github.com/w3c/jlreq-d/discussions/50
[18] https://github.com/w3c/jlreq-d/discussions/50
atsushi: we need to migrate from REST to GraphQL
… @@1
r12a: I'm getting interested in the idea of using Discussions
… seems like it could work quite well for what Kida-san had in
mind
… in the first comment there's a proposal
… and then people could discuss it below in various common
threads
… that seems better than using a wiki
… using a wiki is kind of difficult
… the basic problem we have is that you don't get notified
… unless you subscribed to it
#59
<gb> [19]Action 59 follow up with julie rawe on next steps with
coga such as a work plan (on aphillips) due 2023-12-07
[19] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/59
r12a: so we can tell them to subscribe
close #59
<gb> Closed [20]action #59
[20] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/59
#53
<gb> [21]Action 53 come up with a set of information CSS want
the i18n group to provide support for generic font families (on
frivoal, fantasai) due 2023-11-01
[21] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/53
#47
<gb> [22]Action 47 make the CSSWG aware of Warichu (on frivoal)
due 2023-10-04
[22] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/47
#43
<gb> [23]Action 43 pull together the list of win/mac/etc apis
for setting base direction and/or language (on aphillips) due
2023-09-18
[23] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/43
#35
<gb> [24]Action 35 make the edits of CSS #5478 (on fantasai)
due 2023-08-30
[24] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/35
#33
<gb> [25]Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG
for further review (on aphillips)
[25] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33
#18
<gb> [26]Action 18 Have informal explanation sessions about
counter style translations with csswg members (on frivoal,
fantasai)
[26] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/18
#16
<gb> [27]Action 16 Keep track of line-breaking in Korean for
i18n-discuss#11 (on aphillips)
[27] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/16
#12
<gb> [28]Action 12 Upgrade/edit the explainer to address issues
raised by google (on aphillips)
[28] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/12
addison: #33, we're still reviewing the needs attentions
… I'm gonna keep this as perennial for us to review
r12a: the thing that was stopping you publishing was the use of
a semicolon instead of an ampersand in the echidna file
… that's something I've stumbled on in the past
… I was wondering where we got the template for the file
addison: I changed from FPWD to DNOTE
… I don't think I created the file
… it was already stale
r12a: OK. Thank you.
#11
<gb> [29]Action 11 Triage all css properties to determine which
are logical, physical, or na by default (on frivoal)
[29] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/11
#8
<gb> [30]Action 8 Create pr against canvas formatted text (on
aphillips)
[30] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/8
#7
<gb> [31]Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting
comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin,
r12a, bert-github)
[31] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/7
#5
<gb> [32]Action 5 Check into how to list questions at the top
of a digest and/or improve lang enablement communications (on
r12a)
[32] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/5
close #5
<gb> Closed [33]action #5
[33] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/5
#4
<gb> [34]Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the
character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on r12a)
[34] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4
r12a: I have changed my own implementation of that
significantly recently
Info Share
addison: I published localizable manifest
… I also pushed xfq's change to the glossary to /TR
r12a: I have four days to go next week and then I'm on vacation
… until the middle of January
RADAR Review
r12a: and thereafter, I will be working 2 days a week
addison: have a nice time
Info Share
r12a: yesterday, the W3C announced on a Twitter feed that it
was now leaving Twitter
… and let people go over to Mastodon
… many new followers
RADAR Review
[35]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
[35] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
Renaming alreq
addison: I have moved a few items that have published the CR
over to Completed
… after checking they had nothing open
<r12a> [36]https://www.w3.org/International/alreq/
[36] https://www.w3.org/International/alreq/
r12a: xfq noticed the title of the document is "Text Layout
Requirements for the Arabic Script"
… it has been some years and that document hasn't changed
… it just describes Arabic and Persian
… it also matches the gap analysis document
… if we want to we can expand it later
… although I'm not sure that's a good idea because the amount
of stuff you have to do to cover Urdu etc. is huge
Bert: it's a good idea
… it seems to indeed only talk about the Arabic language and
Persian language
xfq: do we need to mention 'Standard Arabic'?
r12a: it's probably better just to say Arabic
… @@
RESOLUTION: rename alreq to "Arabic & Persian Layout
Requirements"
Needs-Attention issues
[37]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/
issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Aneeds-attention
[37]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is:issue+is:open+label:needs-attention
#1006
<gb> [38]Issue 1006 [not found]
[38] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/1006
[39]w3c/i18n-activity#1006
[39] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1006
<gb> [40]Issue 1006 Informal spellings in specifications (by
w3cbot) [close?] [tracker] [needs-attention]
[40] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1006
close [41]w3c/i18n-activity#1006
[41] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1006
<gb> Cannot close issue #1006. Forbidden.
addison: xfq looked into the informal spelling thing and made
some replies on that
… I can close it now
[42]w3c/i18n-activity#980
[42] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/980
<gb> [43]Issue 980 Interaction between tts:writingMode and
tts:direction on paragraph element. (by w3cbot) [tracker]
[s:ttml] [needs-attention]
[43] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/980
xfq: I'll follow up on the W3C Manual of Style
addison: #980 is a tts issue
<gb> [44]Issue 980 [not found]
[44] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/980
addison: the last comment that I had on it was asking atsushi
if we should discuss
atsushi: this is actually an issue between the model of CSS and
XML-based styles
… even if timed text does not utilise the CSS model, I still
want to get some intermediate model between XML and CSS on this
specific point
… but I have no idea how to make it happen
… I suppose there could be some model between XML and CSS, it
should help WebVTT discussions
… it's quite hard for TTML
… to use the same model as the web browser
addison: should we turn this into needs-resolution instead of a
tracker or is it okay just as a tracker?
… do you want an action to come back to us with a description
that we could work on?
atsushi: for now there is no way to update TTML to use the CSS
model
… personally I think we should close this discussion and
discuss it in WebVTT or IMSC
addison: should we keep this as tracker?
atsushi: it is great to keep this tracker but there is no hope
for it to be resolved
… but it is quite important to keep it as a tracker
… it is important for future timed text
addison: do we need to engage CSS about that problem?
atsushi: there was a bunch of discussion including florian from
CSS
… but there's no resolution
… it's quite hard to change its model now
… from the Team Contact's point of view, I think it won't be
supported by TTML 2, but for upcoming specs like WebVTT, we
really need to align with the CSS model
addison: should I add it to our agenda for the next call?
atsushi: yes
ACTION: addison to add css+xml for next call with css (see
notes about ttml2)
<gb> Created [45]action #61
[45] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/61
#[46]w3c/i18n-activity#809
[46] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/809
[47]w3c/i18n-activity#809
[47] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/809
<gb> [48]Issue 809 [css-fonts] limit local fonts to those
selected by users in browser settings (or other browser chrome)
(by xfq) [tracker] [s:css-fonts] [needs-attention] [i:fonts]
[48] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/809
addison: this is related to the fingerprinting issue
… should we mark this as needs resolution instead of just
tracker?
… privacy thinks it needs resolution
<r12a> [49]w3c/csswg-drafts#5421 (comment)
[49]
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/5421#issuecomment-1842729401
<gb> [50]Issue 5421 [css-fonts-4] The spec should not allow UAs
to ignore user-installed fonts (by r12a) [css-fonts-4]
[i18n-needs-resolution] [privacy-needs-resolution]
[50] https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/5421
r12a: I think this issue is the same
… except the other way around
… the first issue says you should limit local fonts
… the second issue says please don't limit local fonts
… Chris made some changes recently which kind of helped a bit
… but this didn't satisfy our concerns
addison: we can comment on #4497 to say we think this is a
duplicate of #5421
<gb> [51]Issue 4497 [not found]
[51] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4497
<gb> [52]Issue 5421 [not found]
[52] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/5421
[53]w3c/i18n-activity#765
[53] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/765
<gb> [54]Issue 765 input field placeholders should respect the
dir attribute when set to "auto" (by xfq) [tracker] [s:html]
[needs-attention] [i:bidi-text] [spec-type-issue] [alreq]
[hlreq] [i:interaction]
[54] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/765
addison: do you want to make that comment?
r12a: OK
addison: there have been related activity where we were fixing
a bunch of the controls
… first question, should this be a needs resolution?
r12a: I personally would think it should be needs resolution
xfq: +1
r12a: we certainly need to add a comment to say RLM doesn't
actually do the job you need most of the time
… I need to reread this
[55]w3c/i18n-activity#590
[55] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/590
<gb> [56]Issue 590 advance is measured as distance up to left
side of character #3994 (by r12a) [tracker] [s:html]
[needs-attention]
[56] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/590
addison: it actually says to the left side of the character and
of course the advance goes the other way when you're doing RTL
<r12a> [57]whatwg/html#4026 (comment)
[57]
https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/4026#issuecomment-420936617
<gb> [58]Issue 4026 TextMetrics.advances should define more
details (by kojiishi) [topic: canvas] [i18n-tracker]
[58] https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/4026
r12a: why are they trying to do this low-level stuff themselves
rather than relying on the font?
addison: this is canvas
… they have a text interface
… you can do things like get text metrics and measure the text
<Bert> [59]web-platform-tests/wpt#34448 says that the
"advances" attribute is indeed removed.
[59] https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/issues/34448
<gb> [60]Issue 34448 [html/canvas] tests for
TextMetrics.advances should not be in WPT as this attribute is
not in the spec (by jfkthame)
[60] https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/issues/34448
(modify my action)
addison: it looks like it's not active
… I'll write to them and keep this as needs attention for now
AOB?
Summary of action items
1. [61]addison to add css+xml for next call with css (see
notes about ttml2)
Summary of resolutions
1. [62]rename alreq to "Arabic & Persian Layout Requirements"
Received on Friday, 8 December 2023 04:24:19 UTC