- From: Fuqiao Xue <xfq@w3.org>
- Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2023 10:03:56 +0800
- To: www-international@w3.org
https://www.w3.org/2023/11/16-i18n-minutes.html
text version:
[1]W3C
[1] https://www.w3.org/
– DRAFT –
Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
16 November 2023
[2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.
[2]
https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/6d544156-352c-46f2-b6ec-383b4e2462fb/20231116T150000/
[3] https://www.w3.org/2023/11/16-i18n-irc
Attendees
Present
Addison, Bert, Fuqiao, JcK, r12a
Regrets
Atsushi
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
Bert
Contents
1. [4]Agenda Review
2. [5]Action Items
3. [6]Info Share
4. [7]RADAR Review
5. [8]RADAR Review
6. [9]Localized Manifest edits
7. [10]currentLang/currentDir issue in HTML
8. [11]localizable content definition
9. [12]Work in Progress Review
10. [13]AOB?
Meeting minutes
Agenda Review
<addison> agenda
Action Items
<addison> gb, list open actions
<gb> Found actions in w3c/i18n-actions: #58, #57, #56, #55,
#54, #53, #47, #43, #35, #33, #18, #16, #12, #11, #8, #7, #5,
#4
<addison> #58
<gb> [14]Action 58 revise localizable-manifests in light of
tpac conversation and new explainer (on aphillips) due
2023-11-09
[14] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/58
<addison> #57
<gb> [15]Action 57 add localizable content definition to the
glossary (on xfq) due 2023-11-09
[15] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/57
<addison> #56
<gb> [16]Action 56 check on permissions with w3ctag and follow
up with plh on looking for notifications (on xfq) due
2023-11-02
[16] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/56
<addison> #55
<gb> [17]Action 55 work out new time slot for i18n/CSS call (on
xfq) due 2023-11-01
[17] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/55
<addison> close #55
<gb> Closed [18]action #55
[18] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/55
<addison> #54
<gb> [19]Action 54 read Murata-san's ruby-t2s-req and Chinese
requirements and Zaima and see what we're going to do (on xfq)
due 2023-11-01
[19] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/54
<addison> close #54
<gb> Closed [20]action #54
[20] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/54
<xfq> [21]w3c/ruby-t2s-req#41
[21] https://github.com/w3c/ruby-t2s-req/issues/41
<gb> [22]Issue 41 Proposed Subsections for Zaima Annotation (by
dyacob)
[22] https://github.com/w3c/ruby-t2s-req/issues/41
xfq: Done #54. We opened an issue in text-to-speech on ruby.
<xfq> [23]w3c/ruby-t2s-req#39
[23] https://github.com/w3c/ruby-t2s-req/issues/39
<gb> [24]Issue 39 Mention Chinese in the document (by xfq)
[24] https://github.com/w3c/ruby-t2s-req/issues/39
<addison> #53
<gb> [25]Action 53 come up with a set of information CSS want
the i18n group to provide support for generic font families (on
frivoal, fantasai) due 2023-11-01
[25] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/53
<addison> #43
<gb> [26]Action 43 pull together the list of win/mac/etc apis
for setting base direction and/or language (on aphillips) due
2023-09-18
[26] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/43
addison: Started to pull things together. Not sure where to put
the list yet.
… The list may change over time.
… Thoughts? Make it an article?
r12a: Where will it be easiest to find?
addison: Maybe put it in multiple places.
xfq: Maybe in an article.
<addison> #33
<gb> [27]Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG
for further review (on aphillips)
[27] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33
<addison> #12
addison: Closed some, more ongoing. Some issues need review.
<gb> [28]Action 12 Upgrade/edit the explainer to address issues
raised by google (on aphillips)
[28] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/12
addison: Pretty close to done.
… We need to do away with duplicate explainers and other fix
ups.
<addison> [29]https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/
1SC0wVmEPKpeFdDmIvqBlFpcRZdY0yGzP/edit#slide=id.p1
[29]
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1SC0wVmEPKpeFdDmIvqBlFpcRZdY0yGzP/edit#slide=id.p1
addison: I did a lightning talk at Unicode Tech Workshop.
… It was not badly received.
<addison> #8
<gb> [30]Action 8 Create pr against canvas formatted text (on
aphillips)
[30] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/8
<addison> #5
<gb> [31]Action 5 Check into how to list questions at the top
of a digest and/or improve lang enablement communications (on
r12a)
[31] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/5
<addison> #4
<gb> [32]Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the
character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on r12a)
[32] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4
Info Share
<addison> [33]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/
1ADqY3SBG_kGK-gRygN9UruNAKKiXvvK7tDEoBDdjnAY/edit#gid=550699465
[33]
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ADqY3SBG_kGK-gRygN9UruNAKKiXvvK7tDEoBDdjnAY/edit#gid=550699465
addison: COGA still trying to meet with us. See Julie's invite
for timing.
… Next Thursday is US holiday. Should we have a phone call?
… Let's skip next week.
RADAR Review
addison: I was told by Mark and Marcus, if we go to new release
of Unicode, IETF will review and that is not rapid.
… Exclusions of chars might happen, due to specific concerns.
JcK: IETF process
… Not quick, indeed.
… Difficult to get traction on i18n work in IETF in general.
… Most work done by Patrick Falstrom and me.
… 47 is a restating of IDNA 2003. Major diff between 2003 and
2008, other than that 2003 didn't work well,
… is what works and not in identifiers and domain names.
… Following rules in 46 is sufficient according to Mark.
… Rules in 2008 try to prevent registrationof names that
normalize into something else.
… Coding system must be insensitive to anything.
addison: You're talking about the punycode.
JcK: An ident with a precomposed identifier is a different
identifier.
… Even in Latin scripts, combined with " or precombined, or
combining slash, cause differences.
… There should not be any more cases like that, but with every
new version of Unicode, new versions were introduced.
… Mark is convinced of his rules, we think ICANN should follow
ours.
… In addition, ICANN is unable to fiollow its own rules.
… ICANN appointed a committe to think about emoji in domain
names. Concluded it was a terrible idea. But it can be sold for
money. Now on 4th committee.
… We don't have the resources to do the review after a Unicode
release.
… I sugested this group. But reaction was, well...
… Back to IDNA 2003, Mark thought it could be left to Unicode
Consortium, without IETF.
addison: Would be nice to make things rule-based, but if there
is a gap...
JcK: Patrick is liaison between Unicode and IETF.
RADAR Review
<addison> [34]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
[34] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
addison: Nothing came in for the radar
Localized Manifest edits
<addison> [35]https://
deploy-preview-16--localizable-manifests.netlify.app/
[35] https://deploy-preview-16--localizable-manifests.netlify.app/
addison: I'm to work on an update on to manifest spec.
… I added a lot of material and did some more light edits.
… The material may not stay here.
… I expect 2.1 belongs in LTI, and section 3 in String-Meta.
<addison> [36]w3c/localizable-manifests#16
[36] https://github.com/w3c/localizable-manifests/pull/16
addison: Please, have a look at it, and at this pull request ^^
xfq: Would be good to have some info about language and
direction metadata here, even if we move section 3 to
string-meta.
<addison> [37]https://
deploy-preview-16--localizable-manifests.netlify.app/#language-
maps
[37]
https://deploy-preview-16--localizable-manifests.netlify.app/#language-maps
addison: There would still be a section 3, but it would say
"see here".
… Anybody an idea to describe the structure that we describe in
prose here?
currentLang/currentDir issue in HTML
addison: Please, comment, on GitHub.
<addison> [38]whatwg/html#7039
[38] https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/7039
<gb> [39]Issue 7039 Proposal for Element.currentLang and
Element.currentDir (by claviska) [addition/proposal] [needs
implementer interest] [i18n-tracker]
[39] https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/7039
addison: This is a sugestion that there be attributes
associated with elements in the DOM in HTML that allow to find
out the lang and direction, instead of the elaborate process
now, due to inheritance.
… We ought to develop an opinion.
… Initial proposal sounds like a good idea to me.
r12a: What is CSS doing for this?
xfq: Yes, :lang, it exposes the computed value.
localizable content definition
addison: I will put whatwg issue on the agenda for in two weeks
<addison> [40]w3c/i18n-glossary#57
[40] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-glossary/pull/57
<addison> [41]https://
deploy-preview-57--i18n-glossary.netlify.app/
[41] https://deploy-preview-57--i18n-glossary.netlify.app/
xfq: I addeed this, because in the localiable manifest doc we
reference "localizabe content", which term doesn't exist in the
glossary.
<xfq> [42]https://
deploy-preview-57--i18n-glossary.netlify.app/#dfn-localizable-c
ontent
[42]
https://deploy-preview-57--i18n-glossary.netlify.app/#dfn-localizable-content
xfq: I made a simple definition, adapted from "localizable
text" definition.
… They could be merged, but I think they are different.
addison: First thought was to merge them.
<addison> [43]https://
deploy-preview-16--localizable-manifests.netlify.app/#non-lingu
istic
[43]
https://deploy-preview-16--localizable-manifests.netlify.app/#non-linguistic
addison: But I'm not sure.
… In localizable manifest, there is text that may be localized,
but not translated. So maybe indeed distinct concepts.
xfq: We mentioned non-linguistic strings.
addison: We kind of mentioned it, like icons.
… Localizable content doens't always mean translatable content.
… xfq and I can work through it.
Work in Progress Review
<addison> [44]https://w3c.github.io/timezone
[44] https://w3c.github.io/timezone
addison: Some things we haven't talked about for a while. One
is revision of time zone note.
… IETF group called SEDATE.
JcK: The IETF working group is taking position that ISO is not
relevant. Some other people think that ignoring ISO not
appropriate
… Problem that ISO is charging for its documents.
… May get up to IAB and even ISOC, so no results expected for
at least a year.
<addison> [45]https://www.w3.org/TR/timezone
[45] https://www.w3.org/TR/timezone
addison: My proposal is to publish timezone as a WD soon and
call for wide review.
jck: I can give you the note I wrote for @@.
addison: What do we do with XML Schema datetime? Real time
zones are better than offsets.
… But there is no appetite to open XML Schema.
JcK: Should we write a note why tim zones are better than
offsets?
addison: This draft is that.
… So, everyone, have a read and comment.
… I'll ping jck offline about 8861.
<JcK> 8601
<addison> [46]https://w3c.github.io/ltli
[46] https://w3c.github.io/ltli
addison: There is bo WG for XML Scheme, but I'll write an email
about the potential problems with XML Schema.
<addison> [47]https://w3c.github.io/string-search
[47] https://w3c.github.io/string-search
addison: ltli and string-search are under active development.
… any other specs?
JcK: charmod
addison: Nice historical material :-) It is not
terrible,though. And it is a Rec.
JcK: Maybe a discussion about what to do about Recs that turn
historical.
addison: There is a process in W3C for that.
AOB?
No telcon next week. Next telcon in two weeks.
Received on Friday, 17 November 2023 02:03:59 UTC