W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-international@w3.org > January to March 2022

[minutes] Internationalization telecon 2022-01-20

From: r12a <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 16:14:46 +0000
To: www-international@w3.org
Message-ID: <57c477a9-748c-f9c0-1b6e-95be60912089@w3.org>
https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-i18n-minutes.html









– DRAFT –
            Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

20 January 2022

    [2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.

       [2] https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/baf262b7-7551-4c04-96a0-662d85c35505/20220120T150000
       [3] https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-i18n-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Addison, Aro, Atsushi, Bert, David, Eemeli, Eemeli Aro,
           Erik, Erik Nordin, Fuqiao, JcK, JvK, Nordin, r12a,
           Richard, xfq

    Regrets
           -

    Chair
           Addison Phillips

    Scribe
           Bert

Contents

     1. [4]Agenda Review
     2. [5]Action Items
     3. [6]Info Share
     4. [7]RADAR Review
     5. [8]commit updates to specdev
     6. [9]AOB?
     7. [10]Summary of action items

Meeting minutes

    <addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference

    addison: Our W3C calendar needs editing. Seems difficult to
    just extend the dates... I may have to send feature requests.
    :-)

   Agenda Review

   Action Items

    <addison> [11]https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/
    open

      [11] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

    action-1094?

    <trackbot> [12]action-1094: Addison Phillips to Start
    conversation with ecma-402 et al about webidl work -- due
    2021-11-11 -- OPEN

      [12] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1094

    addison: Will get explainer done this week.

    action-1097?

    <trackbot> [13]action-1097: Addison Phillips to Codify epub's
    character restrictions as guidance for specdev -- due
    2021-11-25 -- OPEN

      [13] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1097

    <addison> close action-1097

    <trackbot> Closed action-1097.

    addison: On agenda for later.

    action-1098?

    <trackbot> [14]action-1098: Richard Ishida to Review
    lang-bidi-use-cases for clarity of use cases of specific
    override -- due 2021-11-25 -- OPEN

      [14] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1098

    r12a: Not done, will look over next week.

    action-1100?

    <trackbot> [15]action-1100: Addison Phillips to Move and close
    unassigned with support from r12a -- due 2021-11-25 -- OPEN

      [15] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1100

    <David> zakim present+

    addison: Only thing left seems to close items under "awaiting
    comment resoluttion"

    <addison> close action-1100

    <trackbot> Closed action-1100.

    addison: Maybe need actions for shepherds to close their own
    items.,

    ACTION: addison: remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting
    comment resolutions

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1109 - Remind shepherds to tend to
    their awaiting comment resolutions [on Addison Phillips - due
    2022-01-27].

    action-1103?

    <trackbot> [16]action-1103: Addison Phillips to File issue with
    tag to discuss fate of lang/dir metadata and prepare explainer
    -- due 2021-12-09 -- OPEN

      [16] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1103

    action-1104?

    <trackbot> [17]action-1104: Addison Phillips to Respond to
    dom's thread after xfq forwards note -- due 2021-12-09 -- OPEN

      [17] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1104

    addison: Trying to do that today.

    action-1108?

    <trackbot> [18]action-1108: Addison Phillips to Create naur
    review item -- due 2022-01-20 -- OPEN

      [18] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1108

    <addison> close action-1108

    <trackbot> Closed action-1108.

   Info Share

    Eemeli introduces himself.

    Expects work on DOM localization and other things. Based in
    Finland.

    r12a: I wanted to ask about DOM localization?

    eemeli: Abstraction we'd like to push about declarative
    syntaxes.
    … Attributes that can pull resources.
    … We have something like that already at Mozilla, which we'd
    like to make a standard.
    … And make it more accessible and more standard.
    … Make it easier and declarative.

    r12a: Aware of ITS? Not exactly the same, but maybe
    interesting.

    eemeli: Not quite the same, indeed.

    addison: It can help identify where the localizable parts are.
    You talk more about where to get the localized content itself
    from.

    r12a: Localization needs additional metadata for translator or
    processor and that is what ITS mostly looks at.

    eemeli: That is likely to be wrapped into Unicode message
    format we're working on.

    r12a: ITS took wings with xliff. Your DOM localization may
    bring in more things.
    … You might want to have a look at it.

    [19]https://www.w3.org/TR/its/

      [19] https://www.w3.org/TR/its/

   RADAR Review

    <addison> [20]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

      [20] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

    <r12a> [21]https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/NOTE-its2req-20170302/

      [21] https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/NOTE-its2req-20170302/

    addison: 2 incoming items. 1st is NAUR, due March (arbitrarily)

    Bert: I can do that one.

    addison: 2nd is CSS conditional, also due in March

    atsushi: I'm interested.

   commit updates to specdev

    <addison> [22]https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/55

      [22] https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/55

    <r12a> [23]https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/
    bp-i18n-specdev/55/6bb258c...aphillips:8e6435f.html

      [23] https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/55/6bb258c...aphillips:8e6435f.html

    addison: Discovered we also had a related old action, which I
    combined with this.

    r12a: To recap for new participants: This doc is a collection
    of dos and donts for spec writers.

    addison: I edited section 5.6

    r12a: Change title to "Working with file and path names"?
    Leaves scope for more.

    addison: I can do that.

    r12a: It doesn't say why file names should be restricted to 255
    bytes.

    addison: Comes from DOS. I can add that.
    … Much comes from EPUB, with minor rewording.
    … But I can add explanations.

    r12a: Missing name for character e0001.

    addison: I think it was originally a range...

    David: Are these DOS restrictions still relevant?

    addison: EPUB uses them because ZIP files still have the same
    restrictions.

    Changes to 5.6 accepted.

    addison: Other section is 9.6.1

    r12a: I was confused whether it was about exceptions to the
    previous section. Suggest "Working with errors and exceptions".
    … Wording: localizable content vs natural language text. Are we
    applying those correctly?
    … Natural language text is kind of hand-waiving, but
    localizable text should be precise.

    addison: I'm happy to visit individual instances of the terms.
    Or do you want to talk about the terms themselves?
    … We have a separate glossary document I'd like to put the
    items there.

    r12a: The terms are there already. I suggest we indeed pull the
    glossary out of this best practices doc.

    <r12a> [24]https://w3c.github.io/i18n-glossary/#n

      [24] https://w3c.github.io/i18n-glossary/#n

    <addison> [25]https://www.org/TR/i18n-glossary

      [25] https://www.org/TR/i18n-glossary

    <addison> move note up and link to glossary document, remove
    rest of glossary

    <r12a> note at [26]https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/
    bp-i18n-specdev/55/6bb258c...aphillips:8e6435f.html#glossary

      [26] https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/55/6bb258c...aphillips:8e6435f.html#glossary

    r12a: Might be useful to move the note from the glossary
    section to the top of the doc and link from it to the glossary
    document.

    r12a: "content" sounds a bit strange. Maybe "localizable
    strings"?

    addison: Not all strings are localizable.

    David: And some things that are not strings are still
    localizable, such as images.

    addison: If one were to translate a document, what would one
    expect to see changed? That's the content we're referring to.

    r12a: Text that the user will see.

    addison: I can add "or strings" if that makes it clearer.
    … I will have a conversation with the TAG, related to my action
    item.

    r12a: Adding "strings" will be useful to explain things to
    people.

    ACTION: addison: add "... and strings" to glossary definition
    of localizable content

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1110 - Add "... and strings" to
    glossary definition of localizable content [on Addison Phillips
    - due 2022-01-27].

    r12a: Should we replace "localizable content" with
    "locallizable text"?

    addison: No, we don't mean all text, not the tags, e.g,

    David: Localizable content can be videos.

    r12a: I mean _localizable_ text (stress on localizable), not
    all text.

    addison: There is a discussion about localizable PNG (or some
    of the data in it), which is a binary format...

    r12a: Let me do the edits to the glossary.

    addison: I will edit the best practices.

    <r12a> mojibake

    addison: Should we make an issue or pull request about
    mojibake?

    r12a: A pull request.

    r12a: 3.1 uses "localizable" content in the second mustard and
    natural language in the first, is that consistent?

    addison: I think localizable content.

    About "content" vs "text"

    David: I think here it is "localizable text".

    addison: If I make the edits, will the links to the glossary be
    broken at first?

    r12a: We shouldn't worry about that, we'll fix that later.

    <r12a> String meta is [27]https://w3c.github.io/string-meta/

      [27] https://w3c.github.io/string-meta/

   AOB?

    <addison> [28]https://github.com/w3c/PNG-spec/issues/69

      [28] https://github.com/w3c/PNG-spec/issues/69

    atsushi: Text extension in PNG: shouldn't we recommend to use
    itxt instead and deprecate the latin-1 text extension?

    addison: Two problems: 1) use Unicode text extension (iTXT)
    when you can, but 2) the other extension still exists and thus
    should be well-defined.
    … Historical reasons for the latin-1 encoding, it was a hack to
    pass bytes through.
    … But update to PNG breaks that hack, because certain bytes
    become forbidden.

    <r12a> s/<eemeli[m]> Answering my own earlier question: Yes, a
    bridge is available as `#irc.w3.org_#i18n:w3ctag.org`.//

    <r12a> s/<eemeli> Is there a Matrix bridge for this channel
    available somewhere? I see some w3c IRC channels on matrix.org,
    but not this one.//

Summary of action items

     1. [29]addison: remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting
        comment resolutions
     2. [30]addison: add "... and strings" to glossary definition
        of localizable content
Received on Thursday, 20 January 2022 16:14:53 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thursday, 20 January 2022 16:14:53 UTC