- From: r12a <ishida@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 16:14:46 +0000
- To: www-international@w3.org
- Message-ID: <57c477a9-748c-f9c0-1b6e-95be60912089@w3.org>
https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-i18n-minutes.html
– DRAFT –
Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
20 January 2022
[2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.
[2] https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/baf262b7-7551-4c04-96a0-662d85c35505/20220120T150000
[3] https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-i18n-irc
Attendees
Present
Addison, Aro, Atsushi, Bert, David, Eemeli, Eemeli Aro,
Erik, Erik Nordin, Fuqiao, JcK, JvK, Nordin, r12a,
Richard, xfq
Regrets
-
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
Bert
Contents
1. [4]Agenda Review
2. [5]Action Items
3. [6]Info Share
4. [7]RADAR Review
5. [8]commit updates to specdev
6. [9]AOB?
7. [10]Summary of action items
Meeting minutes
<addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference
addison: Our W3C calendar needs editing. Seems difficult to
just extend the dates... I may have to send feature requests.
:-)
Agenda Review
Action Items
<addison> [11]https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/
open
[11] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
action-1094?
<trackbot> [12]action-1094: Addison Phillips to Start
conversation with ecma-402 et al about webidl work -- due
2021-11-11 -- OPEN
[12] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1094
addison: Will get explainer done this week.
action-1097?
<trackbot> [13]action-1097: Addison Phillips to Codify epub's
character restrictions as guidance for specdev -- due
2021-11-25 -- OPEN
[13] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1097
<addison> close action-1097
<trackbot> Closed action-1097.
addison: On agenda for later.
action-1098?
<trackbot> [14]action-1098: Richard Ishida to Review
lang-bidi-use-cases for clarity of use cases of specific
override -- due 2021-11-25 -- OPEN
[14] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1098
r12a: Not done, will look over next week.
action-1100?
<trackbot> [15]action-1100: Addison Phillips to Move and close
unassigned with support from r12a -- due 2021-11-25 -- OPEN
[15] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1100
<David> zakim present+
addison: Only thing left seems to close items under "awaiting
comment resoluttion"
<addison> close action-1100
<trackbot> Closed action-1100.
addison: Maybe need actions for shepherds to close their own
items.,
ACTION: addison: remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting
comment resolutions
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1109 - Remind shepherds to tend to
their awaiting comment resolutions [on Addison Phillips - due
2022-01-27].
action-1103?
<trackbot> [16]action-1103: Addison Phillips to File issue with
tag to discuss fate of lang/dir metadata and prepare explainer
-- due 2021-12-09 -- OPEN
[16] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1103
action-1104?
<trackbot> [17]action-1104: Addison Phillips to Respond to
dom's thread after xfq forwards note -- due 2021-12-09 -- OPEN
[17] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1104
addison: Trying to do that today.
action-1108?
<trackbot> [18]action-1108: Addison Phillips to Create naur
review item -- due 2022-01-20 -- OPEN
[18] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1108
<addison> close action-1108
<trackbot> Closed action-1108.
Info Share
Eemeli introduces himself.
Expects work on DOM localization and other things. Based in
Finland.
r12a: I wanted to ask about DOM localization?
eemeli: Abstraction we'd like to push about declarative
syntaxes.
… Attributes that can pull resources.
… We have something like that already at Mozilla, which we'd
like to make a standard.
… And make it more accessible and more standard.
… Make it easier and declarative.
r12a: Aware of ITS? Not exactly the same, but maybe
interesting.
eemeli: Not quite the same, indeed.
addison: It can help identify where the localizable parts are.
You talk more about where to get the localized content itself
from.
r12a: Localization needs additional metadata for translator or
processor and that is what ITS mostly looks at.
eemeli: That is likely to be wrapped into Unicode message
format we're working on.
r12a: ITS took wings with xliff. Your DOM localization may
bring in more things.
… You might want to have a look at it.
[19]https://www.w3.org/TR/its/
[19] https://www.w3.org/TR/its/
RADAR Review
<addison> [20]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
[20] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
<r12a> [21]https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/NOTE-its2req-20170302/
[21] https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/NOTE-its2req-20170302/
addison: 2 incoming items. 1st is NAUR, due March (arbitrarily)
Bert: I can do that one.
addison: 2nd is CSS conditional, also due in March
atsushi: I'm interested.
commit updates to specdev
<addison> [22]https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/55
[22] https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/55
<r12a> [23]https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/
bp-i18n-specdev/55/6bb258c...aphillips:8e6435f.html
[23] https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/55/6bb258c...aphillips:8e6435f.html
addison: Discovered we also had a related old action, which I
combined with this.
r12a: To recap for new participants: This doc is a collection
of dos and donts for spec writers.
addison: I edited section 5.6
r12a: Change title to "Working with file and path names"?
Leaves scope for more.
addison: I can do that.
r12a: It doesn't say why file names should be restricted to 255
bytes.
addison: Comes from DOS. I can add that.
… Much comes from EPUB, with minor rewording.
… But I can add explanations.
r12a: Missing name for character e0001.
addison: I think it was originally a range...
David: Are these DOS restrictions still relevant?
addison: EPUB uses them because ZIP files still have the same
restrictions.
Changes to 5.6 accepted.
addison: Other section is 9.6.1
r12a: I was confused whether it was about exceptions to the
previous section. Suggest "Working with errors and exceptions".
… Wording: localizable content vs natural language text. Are we
applying those correctly?
… Natural language text is kind of hand-waiving, but
localizable text should be precise.
addison: I'm happy to visit individual instances of the terms.
Or do you want to talk about the terms themselves?
… We have a separate glossary document I'd like to put the
items there.
r12a: The terms are there already. I suggest we indeed pull the
glossary out of this best practices doc.
<r12a> [24]https://w3c.github.io/i18n-glossary/#n
[24] https://w3c.github.io/i18n-glossary/#n
<addison> [25]https://www.org/TR/i18n-glossary
[25] https://www.org/TR/i18n-glossary
<addison> move note up and link to glossary document, remove
rest of glossary
<r12a> note at [26]https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/
bp-i18n-specdev/55/6bb258c...aphillips:8e6435f.html#glossary
[26] https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/55/6bb258c...aphillips:8e6435f.html#glossary
r12a: Might be useful to move the note from the glossary
section to the top of the doc and link from it to the glossary
document.
r12a: "content" sounds a bit strange. Maybe "localizable
strings"?
addison: Not all strings are localizable.
David: And some things that are not strings are still
localizable, such as images.
addison: If one were to translate a document, what would one
expect to see changed? That's the content we're referring to.
r12a: Text that the user will see.
addison: I can add "or strings" if that makes it clearer.
… I will have a conversation with the TAG, related to my action
item.
r12a: Adding "strings" will be useful to explain things to
people.
ACTION: addison: add "... and strings" to glossary definition
of localizable content
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1110 - Add "... and strings" to
glossary definition of localizable content [on Addison Phillips
- due 2022-01-27].
r12a: Should we replace "localizable content" with
"locallizable text"?
addison: No, we don't mean all text, not the tags, e.g,
David: Localizable content can be videos.
r12a: I mean _localizable_ text (stress on localizable), not
all text.
addison: There is a discussion about localizable PNG (or some
of the data in it), which is a binary format...
r12a: Let me do the edits to the glossary.
addison: I will edit the best practices.
<r12a> mojibake
addison: Should we make an issue or pull request about
mojibake?
r12a: A pull request.
r12a: 3.1 uses "localizable" content in the second mustard and
natural language in the first, is that consistent?
addison: I think localizable content.
About "content" vs "text"
David: I think here it is "localizable text".
addison: If I make the edits, will the links to the glossary be
broken at first?
r12a: We shouldn't worry about that, we'll fix that later.
<r12a> String meta is [27]https://w3c.github.io/string-meta/
[27] https://w3c.github.io/string-meta/
AOB?
<addison> [28]https://github.com/w3c/PNG-spec/issues/69
[28] https://github.com/w3c/PNG-spec/issues/69
atsushi: Text extension in PNG: shouldn't we recommend to use
itxt instead and deprecate the latin-1 text extension?
addison: Two problems: 1) use Unicode text extension (iTXT)
when you can, but 2) the other extension still exists and thus
should be well-defined.
… Historical reasons for the latin-1 encoding, it was a hack to
pass bytes through.
… But update to PNG breaks that hack, because certain bytes
become forbidden.
<r12a> s/<eemeli[m]> Answering my own earlier question: Yes, a
bridge is available as `#irc.w3.org_#i18n:w3ctag.org`.//
<r12a> s/<eemeli> Is there a Matrix bridge for this channel
available somewhere? I see some w3c IRC channels on matrix.org,
but not this one.//
Summary of action items
1. [29]addison: remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting
comment resolutions
2. [30]addison: add "... and strings" to glossary definition
of localizable content
Received on Thursday, 20 January 2022 16:14:53 UTC