- From: r12a <ishida@w3.org>
- Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 13:23:16 +0000
- To: www-international@w3.org
- Message-ID: <b12268bb-0a47-df99-2c41-5525d9fd4c87@w3.org>
https://www.w3.org/2022/01/13-i18n-minutes.html
– DRAFT –
Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
13 January 2022
[2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.
[2] https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/baf262b7-7551-4c04-96a0-662d85c35505/20220113T150000
[3] https://www.w3.org/2022/01/13-i18n-irc
Attendees
Present
addison, Atsushi, Bert, Erik Nordin, Fuqiao, JcK,
Richard
Regrets
-
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
atsushi
Contents
1. [4]Agenda Review
2. [5]Action Items
3. [6]Info Share
4. [7]RADAR Review
5. [8]webauth recharter and gettext
6. [9]How to order items in a multilingual list
7. [10]AOB?
8. [11]Summary of action items
Meeting minutes
<addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference
Agenda Review
richard: web authentication, use gettext from GNU for
localization
Action Items
<addison> [12]https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/
open
[12] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
addison: 1094, on ecma-402
… start that conversation, and working on explainer
… backoff next week
addison: 1097, no time on this
addison: 1098, on lang-bidi-use-cases
richard: not yet. (first week after off)
addison: 1100, get this shortly
addison: 1101, did and they replied that they are welcome
… will create items
ACTION: addison: create naur review item
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1108 - Create naur review item [on
Addison Phillips - due 2022-01-20].
<addison> close action-1101
<trackbot> Closed action-1101.
addison: 1103, the same explainer as ecma-402, not yet done
addison: 1104
addison: 1106, still need?
<addison> close action-1106
<trackbot> Closed action-1106.
jck: still need
<addison> [13]https://github.com/WICG/handwriting-recognition/
issues/1
[13] https://github.com/WICG/handwriting-recognition/issues/1
addison: 1107, did do, and close this
<addison> zxx-x-shape
addison: they decided to use zxx
<addison> close action-1107
<trackbot> Closed action-1107.
Info Share
addison: welcome back, happy gregorian new year
… and welcome new member, Nordin joined yesterday
erik: internationalization team at Mozilla, joined this year
with my colleagues
… one is in trainig of company and not here with me today
<addison> (other new person from Mozilla is Eemeli)
erik: internationalized domain, ICU, i18n toolings
… joining to the WG, involved to message format 2.0
… interested in DOM localization
… we hope to be more involved and to get world more
internationalized
<xfq> [14]https://github.com/w3c/documentreview/issues/28
[14] https://github.com/w3c/documentreview/issues/28
xfq: new status called registry, this needs wide review as well
… added an issue to documentreview on this
… we can add some correspondence template into our repository
addison: registration strategy or value?
xfq: basically strategy and documentation
<JcK> Oh, in case that got lost over the holidays, the magic
BCP link is [15]https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/bcpNNN
[15] https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/bcpNNN
xfq: no published registry document yet
… we will see whether they will really need review or not
addison: we could need different tag or status?
… who want to think about these?
richard: inclined to wait until we need to look into
xfq: same for me, and this is just a heads up
addison: chicken and egg
… wait until one comes
… for now, at least one in our pipeline?
xfq: webcodecs is creating registry, and coulbe in the pipeline
addison: keep it open
richard: monotype is interested in looking Arabic justification
automatically
… especially on window stretching
… 6 people together and look into this area
… should be useful if we can find some solution
… could be plugged into CSS at some point
… they also seek to extend from Arabic to others
RADAR Review
addison: so, taking Arabic as one of majors
<addison> [16]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
[16] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
addison: it might be useful to bring thease into alreq
repository once some secured text created
addison: no incoming review request
… any status update?
richard: a month ago, tried to raise gap-analysis pipeline, on
rewritting for testing
… started raising bugs, and Mozilla is working on these bugs
… continue to do that
<r12a> [17]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/projects/3
[17] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/projects/3
webauth recharter and gettext
richard: charter states to use gettext for localization
facility
… read gettext, long documentation
addison: not hopeless, but why W3C spec pickes up this
localization technology
richard: this is also kind of internationalization technology
<r12a> [18]https://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/
gettext.html
[18] https://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/gettext.html
<xfq> [19]VC WG charter
[19] https://w3c.github.io/vc-wg-charter/#ig-other-deliverables
richard: wondering how bidi is handled
<r12a> white-space
<r12a> # translator-comments
<r12a> #. extracted-comments
<r12a> #: reference…
<r12a> #, flag…
<r12a> #| msgid previous-untranslated-string
<r12a> msgid untranslated-string
<r12a> msgstr translated-string
<r12a> eg.
<r12a> #: lib/error.c:116
<r12a> msgid "Unknown system error"
<r12a> msgstr "Error desconegut del sistema"
richard: one line for original as id, one line for translation
… just a text file
addison: you may want to escape bidi, and make text as human
readable
… but don't remember of escaping
bert: using gettext for some of my software, simple text file
… don't think any standard on markup nor escape
… usually tags are not for translation
addison: back to my meta question, whey would W3C points these
specific thing
<xfq> [20]https://www.w3.org/TR/
mlw-metadata-us-impl/#Using_ITS_2.0_with_GNU_gettext_utilities.
2FPO_files
[20] https://www.w3.org/TR/mlw-metadata-us-impl/#Using_ITS_2.0_with_GNU_gettext_utilities.2FPO_files
addison: why not other internationalization or localization
scheme?
xfq: our document has some lines for using GNU gettext
… gettext is stream comversion
addison: does this WG use it for ones like angle brackets
… and be careful of bidi controls
richard: gettext uses language code, two char with subtags
addison: Linux systems are using gettext for long time, and
original source
richard: several advices on prurals also
addison: any other action?
richard: will make some comments
<xfq> [21]VC WG charter
[21] https://w3c.github.io/vc-wg-charter/#ig-other-deliverables
[22]example of targets
[22] https://github.com/w3c/vc-wg-charter/issues/19#issuecomment-994607242
How to order items in a multilingual list
<r12a> [23]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-discuss/issues/20
[23] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-discuss/issues/20
richard: this thread is wondering also of direction which has
clear guidelines
… discussing what order list is shown in a page
… and second point, getting item to the top based on users'
preference
… conclusion could be different when you have long list or not
bert: wikipedia uses order of language code
richard: it is predictable
… same number of translations to be shown in pages of
translation
… you will get one solid idea between pages on this order
richard: even picking some languages, we need to order lists
addison: randomly ordered list is possible...
richard: any preference?
… over whole list if there is no preferred language
<r12a> [24]https://www.w3.org/International/articlelist
[24] https://www.w3.org/International/articlelist
addison: it works ok
… if you are on long list, you need to know which language is
in which code
… when we have completed list of cldr language list, many
unknowns
<r12a> [25]https://r12a.github.io/app-charuse/
[25] https://r12a.github.io/app-charuse/
richard: just typing and finding could work most of time
… above page has all in English and can filter and jump by
typing
richard: starting talking on ways of getting information
… what order is preferred
addison: my preference is ordered by lang code, and pulling by
typing
… for example, currency selection has the same issue
richard: that is the preference on W3C site redesign
… I think we should provide customized list, rather than
providing ordered list
addison: if the list is large, people could miss the group at
the top
bert: found pros/cons for that grouping
richard: if you only have three translation, could be picked up
by browser preference
… I suspect not selecter
… in our article, like 40 translations, ordered list is better
addison: including English also seems better
… and also regionaly sorted groups
richard: to find a language quicker, having items at the top
from preference could be better
addison: haven't done, keens to test that
… draw back is people could remember around where item was
richard: number of languages could differ per page
… if you have 6 languages for a page, you can look without
checking selections by scrolling
addison: just to have lists in the same order as language tag,
not to cause flame
eric: mozilla is always aware of identifying information than
just ordering
addison: language preference is sent to all web server as
header
AOB?
addison: around top, any other?
<Bert> (But need to take into account that the lang pref may be
wrong on purpose, precisely because people care about
protecting their personal data.)
Summary of action items
1. [26]addison: create naur review item
Received on Tuesday, 18 January 2022 13:23:22 UTC