[minutes] Internationalization telecon 2022-01-13


  – DRAFT –
            Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

13 January 2022

    [2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.

       [2] https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/baf262b7-7551-4c04-96a0-662d85c35505/20220113T150000
       [3] https://www.w3.org/2022/01/13-i18n-irc


           addison, Atsushi, Bert, Erik Nordin, Fuqiao, JcK,


           Addison Phillips



     1. [4]Agenda Review
     2. [5]Action Items
     3. [6]Info Share
     4. [7]RADAR Review
     5. [8]webauth recharter and gettext
     6. [9]How to order items in a multilingual list
     7. [10]AOB?
     8. [11]Summary of action items

Meeting minutes

    <addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference

   Agenda Review

    richard: web authentication, use gettext from GNU for

   Action Items

    <addison> [12]https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/

      [12] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

    addison: 1094, on ecma-402
    … start that conversation, and working on explainer
    … backoff next week

    addison: 1097, no time on this

    addison: 1098, on lang-bidi-use-cases

    richard: not yet. (first week after off)

    addison: 1100, get this shortly

    addison: 1101, did and they replied that they are welcome
    … will create items

    ACTION: addison: create naur review item

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1108 - Create naur review item [on
    Addison Phillips - due 2022-01-20].

    <addison> close action-1101

    <trackbot> Closed action-1101.

    addison: 1103, the same explainer as ecma-402, not yet done

    addison: 1104

    addison: 1106, still need?

    <addison> close action-1106

    <trackbot> Closed action-1106.

    jck: still need

    <addison> [13]https://github.com/WICG/handwriting-recognition/

      [13] https://github.com/WICG/handwriting-recognition/issues/1

    addison: 1107, did do, and close this

    <addison> zxx-x-shape

    addison: they decided to use zxx

    <addison> close action-1107

    <trackbot> Closed action-1107.

   Info Share

    addison: welcome back, happy gregorian new year
    … and welcome new member, Nordin joined yesterday

    erik: internationalization team at Mozilla, joined this year
    with my colleagues
    … one is in trainig of company and not here with me today

    <addison> (other new person from Mozilla is Eemeli)

    erik: internationalized domain, ICU, i18n toolings
    … joining to the WG, involved to message format 2.0
    … interested in DOM localization
    … we hope to be more involved and to get world more

    <xfq> [14]https://github.com/w3c/documentreview/issues/28

      [14] https://github.com/w3c/documentreview/issues/28

    xfq: new status called registry, this needs wide review as well
    … added an issue to documentreview on this
    … we can add some correspondence template into our repository

    addison: registration strategy or value?

    xfq: basically strategy and documentation

    <JcK> Oh, in case that got lost over the holidays, the magic
    BCP link is [15]https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/bcpNNN

      [15] https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/bcpNNN

    xfq: no published registry document yet
    … we will see whether they will really need review or not

    addison: we could need different tag or status?
    … who want to think about these?

    richard: inclined to wait until we need to look into

    xfq: same for me, and this is just a heads up

    addison: chicken and egg
    … wait until one comes
    … for now, at least one in our pipeline?

    xfq: webcodecs is creating registry, and coulbe in the pipeline

    addison: keep it open

    richard: monotype is interested in looking Arabic justification
    … especially on window stretching
    … 6 people together and look into this area
    … should be useful if we can find some solution
    … could be plugged into CSS at some point
    … they also seek to extend from Arabic to others

   RADAR Review

    addison: so, taking Arabic as one of majors

    <addison> [16]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

      [16] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

    addison: it might be useful to bring thease into alreq
    repository once some secured text created

    addison: no incoming review request
    … any status update?

    richard: a month ago, tried to raise gap-analysis pipeline, on
    rewritting for testing
    … started raising bugs, and Mozilla is working on these bugs
    … continue to do that

    <r12a> [17]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/projects/3

      [17] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/projects/3

   webauth recharter and gettext

    richard: charter states to use gettext for localization
    … read gettext, long documentation

    addison: not hopeless, but why W3C spec pickes up this
    localization technology

    richard: this is also kind of internationalization technology

    <r12a> [18]https://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/

      [18] https://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/gettext.html

    <xfq> [19]VC WG charter

      [19] https://w3c.github.io/vc-wg-charter/#ig-other-deliverables

    richard: wondering how bidi is handled

    <r12a> white-space

    <r12a> # translator-comments

    <r12a> #. extracted-comments

    <r12a> #: reference…

    <r12a> #, flag…

    <r12a> #| msgid previous-untranslated-string

    <r12a> msgid untranslated-string

    <r12a> msgstr translated-string

    <r12a> eg.

    <r12a> #: lib/error.c:116

    <r12a> msgid "Unknown system error"

    <r12a> msgstr "Error desconegut del sistema"

    richard: one line for original as id, one line for translation
    … just a text file

    addison: you may want to escape bidi, and make text as human
    … but don't remember of escaping

    bert: using gettext for some of my software, simple text file
    … don't think any standard on markup nor escape
    … usually tags are not for translation

    addison: back to my meta question, whey would W3C points these
    specific thing

    <xfq> [20]https://www.w3.org/TR/

      [20] https://www.w3.org/TR/mlw-metadata-us-impl/#Using_ITS_2.0_with_GNU_gettext_utilities.2FPO_files

    addison: why not other internationalization or localization

    xfq: our document has some lines for using GNU gettext
    … gettext is stream comversion

    addison: does this WG use it for ones like angle brackets
    … and be careful of bidi controls

    richard: gettext uses language code, two char with subtags

    addison: Linux systems are using gettext for long time, and
    original source

    richard: several advices on prurals also

    addison: any other action?

    richard: will make some comments

    <xfq> [21]VC WG charter

      [21] https://w3c.github.io/vc-wg-charter/#ig-other-deliverables

    [22]example of targets

      [22] https://github.com/w3c/vc-wg-charter/issues/19#issuecomment-994607242

   How to order items in a multilingual list

    <r12a> [23]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-discuss/issues/20

      [23] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-discuss/issues/20

    richard: this thread is wondering also of direction which has
    clear guidelines
    … discussing what order list is shown in a page
    … and second point, getting item to the top based on users'
    … conclusion could be different when you have long list or not

    bert: wikipedia uses order of language code

    richard: it is predictable
    … same number of translations to be shown in pages of
    … you will get one solid idea between pages on this order

    richard: even picking some languages, we need to order lists

    addison: randomly ordered list is possible...

    richard: any preference?
    … over whole list if there is no preferred language

    <r12a> [24]https://www.w3.org/International/articlelist

      [24] https://www.w3.org/International/articlelist

    addison: it works ok
    … if you are on long list, you need to know which language is
    in which code
    … when we have completed list of cldr language list, many

    <r12a> [25]https://r12a.github.io/app-charuse/

      [25] https://r12a.github.io/app-charuse/

    richard: just typing and finding could work most of time
    … above page has all in English and can filter and jump by

    richard: starting talking on ways of getting information
    … what order is preferred

    addison: my preference is ordered by lang code, and pulling by
    … for example, currency selection has the same issue

    richard: that is the preference on W3C site redesign
    … I think we should provide customized list, rather than
    providing ordered list

    addison: if the list is large, people could miss the group at
    the top

    bert: found pros/cons for that grouping

    richard: if you only have three translation, could be picked up
    by browser preference
    … I suspect not selecter
    … in our article, like 40 translations, ordered list is better

    addison: including English also seems better
    … and also regionaly sorted groups

    richard: to find a language quicker, having items at the top
    from preference could be better

    addison: haven't done, keens to test that
    … draw back is people could remember around where item was

    richard: number of languages could differ per page
    … if you have 6 languages for a page, you can look without
    checking selections by scrolling

    addison: just to have lists in the same order as language tag,
    not to cause flame

    eric: mozilla is always aware of identifying information than
    just ordering

    addison: language preference is sent to all web server as


    addison: around top, any other?

    <Bert> (But need to take into account that the lang pref may be
    wrong on purpose, precisely because people care about
    protecting their personal data.)

Summary of action items

     1. [26]addison: create naur review item

Received on Tuesday, 18 January 2022 13:23:22 UTC