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[minutes] Internationalization telecon 2021-12-02

From: r12a <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2021 17:54:31 +0000
To: www-international@w3.org
Message-ID: <a9b11893-2fd2-0ffb-da86-9df15f02dd61@w3.org>
https://www.w3.org/2021/12/02-i18n-minutes.html










  – DRAFT –
            Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

02 December 2021

    [2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.

       [2] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Nov/0040.html
       [3] https://www.w3.org/2021/12/02-i18n-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Addison, Atsushi, Bert, Fuqiao, JcK, Richard

    Regrets
           -

    Chair
           Addison Phillips

    Scribe
           Bert

Contents

     1. [4]Agenda Review
     2. [5]Action Items
     3. [6]Info Share
     4. [7]RADAR Review
     5. [8]discuss action 1099
     6. [9]BCP47 reference
     7. [10]Localizable strings
     8. [11]IFT Review
     9. [12]AOB?
    10. [13]Summary of action items

Meeting minutes

    <addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference

   Agenda Review

    atsushi: Ishii-san is preparaing a document summarizing
    OpenType features.
    … To bring it to jlreq docs, and maybe to i18n WG

    atsushi: speech input at OS level. Device tag exposed to
    JavaScript?

   Action Items

    <addison> [14]https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/
    open

      [14] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

    addison: We can talk about that under localizable strings.

    <addison> action-1093?

    <trackbot> [15]action-1093: Addison Phillips to Ping
    localizable thread and seek to resolve next steps with whatwg
    -- due 2021-11-11 -- OPEN

      [15] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1093

    addison: Looked at issue related to 1093 yesterday. Will talk
    about it later.

    <addison> action-1094?

    <trackbot> [16]action-1094: Addison Phillips to Start
    conversation with ecma-402 et al about webidl work -- due
    2021-11-11 -- OPEN

      [16] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1094

    <addison> action-1096?

    <trackbot> [17]action-1096: Fuqiao Xue to Ping jck about link
    to bcp47 -- due 2021-11-25 -- OPEN

      [17] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1096

    addison: Had a couple of emails about 1094, we'll talk about it
    later.

    <JcK> Actually IANA, but...

    <addison> close action-1096

    <trackbot> Closed action-1096.

    xfq: Exchanged with John about 1096.

    Will be an agenda item

    action-1099?

    <trackbot> [18]action-1099: Fuqiao Xue to File errata on
    json-ld @direction null example -- due 2021-11-25 -- OPEN

      [18] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1099

    xfq: Not yet, but not yet sure I understand the problem. Can we
    make it an agenda item?

   Info Share

    <r12a> [19]https://www.w3.org/International/
    i18n-tests/#test_rigs

      [19] https://www.w3.org/International/i18n-tests/#test_rigs

    r12a: CSS internationalization tests
    … for text-transform and line alignement (first line indent)
    … and for letter-spacing and word-spacing

    xfq: There is a 'text-spacing' property, too, in css-text-4.

    r12a: That is another one to add, then.

    JcK: IETF figured out that @@ into ASCII
    … Not as bad as rendering Swedish å as ae, etc.

    addison: Use UTF-8 instead? :-)

    <Zakim> Bert, you wanted to infoshare

    <addison> bert: has become liaison to geospatial group in iso

   RADAR Review

    Bert: I've become liaison to ISO TC 211 WG4 and the EU's
    INSPIRE.

    <addison> [20]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

      [20] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

    addison: There wer some transition requests. I may need to nag
    some groups.

    xfq: NAUR is related to our work. Not requested a review yet.
    … From the APA WG.

    ACTION: addison: send email to NAUR asking after early review

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1101 - Send email to naur asking
    after early review [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-12-09].

   discuss action 1099

    <xfq> [21]https://www.w3.org/TR/2020/
    REC-json-ld11-20200716/#example-77-overriding-default-language-
    and-default-base-direction-using-an-expanded-value

      [21] https://www.w3.org/TR/2020/REC-json-ld11-20200716/#example-77-overriding-default-language-and-default-base-direction-using-an-expanded-value

    xfq: We discussed 2 weeks ago about this.
    … When I looked at it again, I wasn't sure to understand.

    addison: The @direction is null for some reason.

    xfq: Seems it should be rtl, like the global direction.

    addison: The same as the @context's direction.

    xfq: So are we requesting something about the @direction in
    "author"? Should it be "rtl"?

    r12a: There are several similar ones. Maybe not as problematic
    as I thought.

    addison: The "null" points to...

    xfq: Means a lack of value.

    <addison> close action-1099

    <trackbot> Closed action-1099.

    addison: Maybe it is not an issue then.

   BCP47 reference

    JcK: I brought it to the attention of IANA and IETF
    applications area director.
    … IANA ability to do things is limited.
    … If the issue is to write a spec, they can do it. If it is to
    put a stamp of approval on somethinhg, they cannot do that.
    … So I'm back to not understanding the problem.

    addison: xfq referrred to the fact that the tools link was
    broken.

    JcK: W3C's guidance on how to refer to the tools needs to be
    rewritten.

    addison: So the link has to go to rfc-editor.

    <addison> [22]https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/bcp47

      [22] https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/bcp47

    xfq: So we can refer to BCP47 with that link. Another issue is
    that we have links to a specific section of BCP47.
    … No way to refer to sections.

    addison: So we can refer to the RFC instead of the BCP.

    JcK: Refer to "BCP47 ... currently RFC... " etc.

    addison: Do we fix the xref database, so it gets into bikeshed
    etc.?

    ACTION: xfq: update bcp47 specific section references in
    articles

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1102 - Update bcp47 specific section
    references in articles [on Fuqiao Xue - due 2021-12-09].

    xfq: Those links have already been changed to rfc-editor. We
    just need to do it in our articles.

   Localizable strings

    addison: I saw mail, I should have more to report next week.

    r12a: Is this because of Dom's email?

    addison: We have comments on a bunch of specs. WebIDL said they
    are modeled on JavaScript and we should ge there.
    … I started that conversation, but don't expect rapid progress.
    … My udnerstanding is a new localizable string type could take
    a few years.
    … That still leaves the question what we do with current specs.
    … Should they still model localizable strings as strings?

    r12a: Dom wants to hear from us soon, for an upcoming
    transition.

    addison: Where is his email?

    xfq: It was to Philippe, r12a and me only.

    addison: If you add me to it, I'll try to reply.
    … What do we want to reply?
    … That we currently don't mind? But I'm not hopeful that we'll
    get a JavaScript type soon.
    … Or propose that they build a datastructure?

    addison: Ask the TAG? It seems a web platform issue.

    r12a: Maybe a good idea...

    ACTION: addison: file issue with TAG to discuss fate of
    lang/dir metadata and prepare explainer

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1103 - File issue with tag to discuss
    fate of lang/dir metadata and prepare explainer [on Addison
    Phillips - due 2021-12-09].

   IFT Review

    r12a: We should also contact Dom quickly.

    addison: Can you put me on that thread?

    ACTION: addison: respond to Dom's thread after xfq forwards
    note

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1104 - Respond to dom's thread after
    xfq forwards note [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-12-09].

    xfq: will do.

    atsushi: There were several updates to the doc, but I didn't
    have time to check them yet.
    … subsetting fonts with ligatures and punctuation. I asked them
    some quesstions.

    addison: Is it a question of the wrong terminology?

    atsushi: There are several pull requests about changing
    terminology, but I haven't looked at them yet.

    addison: You need somebody else to look at them?

    atsushi: I'd like some time to draft my comments.

    addison: Could you create an issue in time for next week's
    call.

    atsushi: There is one issue already.

    <atsushi> [23]https://github.com/w3c/IFT/issues/
    41#issuecomment-964569925

      [23] https://github.com/w3c/IFT/issues/41#issuecomment-964569925

    <atsushi> [24]https://github.com/w3c/IFT/pull/53/files

      [24] https://github.com/w3c/IFT/pull/53/files

    atsushi: and a related patch ^^

    addison: The comment from Garret on the issue above seems
    reasonable.
    … I'd be surprised if the font people didn't understand the
    issues.

    ACTION: atsushi: draft text about IFT glyph/codepoint issue

    atsushi: There are implementations, which could be used to
    provide more details.

    ACTION: atsushi: draft text about IFT glyph/codepoint issue

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1105 - Draft text about ift
    glyph/codepoint issue [on Atsushi Shimono - due 2021-12-09].

   AOB?

    addison: I glanced at the calendar:
    … are people away on Thursdays near the end of the year?

    r12a: I'll be out on the 23rd and the 30th. Maybe also on Jan
    the 6th.

    JcK: Probably best to skip 23 and 30.

    <Bert> I'll be out on the 30th, probably on the 23rd

Summary of action items

     1. [25]addison: send email to NAUR asking after early review
     2. [26]xfq: update bcp47 specific section references in
        articles
     3. [27]addison: file issue with TAG to discuss fate of
        lang/dir metadata and prepare explainer
     4. [28]addison: respond to Dom's thread after xfq forwards
        note
     5. [29]atsushi: draft text about IFT glyph/codepoint issue
     6. [30]atsushi: draft text about IFT glyph/codepoint issue


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      [31] https://w3c.github.io/scribe2/scribedoc.html
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