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[minutes] Internationalization telecon 2021-11-18

From: r12a <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 16:26:23 +0000
To: www-international@w3.org
Message-ID: <680a1ca8-970c-a66a-98a0-09356ffbaab8@w3.org>
https://www.w3.org/2021/11/18-i18n-minutes.html







– DRAFT –
            Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

18 November 2021

    [2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.

       [2] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Nov/0028.html
       [3] https://www.w3.org/2021/11/18-i18n-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Addison, Atsushi, Bert, David, Fuqiao, Richard

    Regrets
           Fatima

    Chair
           Addison Phillips

    Scribe
           atsushi, David

Contents

     1. [4]Agenda Review
     2. [5]Action Items
     3. [6]Info Share
     4. [7]RADAR Review
     5. [8]epub
     6. [9]string metadata in manifest
     7. [10]Radar Assignments
     8. [11]Summary of action items

Meeting minutes

    <addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference

   Agenda Review

    <addison> scribenick David

    Any extra agenda times

    Xf: String meta

    Xfq: Epub

   Action Items

    <addison> [12]https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/
    open

      [12] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

    Addison: Docs are due

    <addison> action-1034?

    <trackbot> [13]action-1034: Addison Phillips to Triage awaiting
    comment resolution items -- due 2021-06-24 -- OPEN

      [13] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1034

    <addison> close action-1034

    <trackbot> Closed action-1034.

    adisson: close 1034

    Addison: Felix is not here

    <addison> action-1079?

    <trackbot> [14]action-1079: Addison Phillips to Prepare comment
    for web auth until next week -- due 2021-09-16 -- OPEN

      [14] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1079

    <addison> close action-1079

    <trackbot> Closed action-1079.

    Addison: 1079 Comments have been prepared for web auth, but was
    unable to attend their telecon

    <addison> action-1094?

    <trackbot> [15]action-1094: Addison Phillips to Start
    conversation with ecma-402 et al about webidl work -- due
    2021-11-11 -- OPEN

      [15] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1094

    Addison: 1093 - still to do

    Addison: 1094 has had a reply and will be progressing it today

    <addison> action-1095?

    <trackbot> [16]action-1095: Richard Ishida to Go through all
    issues that are needs-resolution and compare to awaiting
    comment resolution and create list of unassigned specs -- due
    2021-11-18 -- OPEN

      [16] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1095

    <addison> close action-1095

    <trackbot> Closed action-1095.

    Addison: 1095 R12a don

   Info Share

    <xfq> [17]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/issues/321

      [17] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/issues/321

    <xfq> [18]https://github.com/tobie/specref/issues/688

      [18] https://github.com/tobie/specref/issues/688

    xfq: looks like BCP47 URL has been moved and broken many links.
    Has made PRs for our articles.

    xfq: Filed an issue against techref regarding tools that broke

    addison: RFC editor link is not ideal

    jcK: RFC editor should be stable...

    xfq: Tools link to RFCs but they broke, is there an equivalent
    for RFC editor

    ACTION: xfq: ping jck about link to BCP47

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1096 - Ping jck about link to bcp47
    [on Fuqiao Xue - due 2021-11-25].

    jcK: Contact me later to sort this out

    <xfq> See [19]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/pull/324

      [19] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/pull/324

    r12a: Found the link from ietf

    JcK: There are issues tools pointer has moved. It is all tied
    up with the debate on what to do about RFC editor.

    xfq: Data tracker link redirects to the RFC editor now.

    jcK: The URL will change

    Addison: Specref people need to fix links

    xfq: Many RFC links have been moved, but BCP is different

    Atsuushi: 2 items Murata-san is working on documents and
    desires a call with JLTF about their relationship with others.
    Have addition in mind for other relationships.

    <atsushi> [20]https://docs.google.com/document/d/
    12xbvcy1_x2GTvln7nKhA0NEVke63uDpDasGCYbDxhu4/edit

      [20] https://docs.google.com/document/d/12xbvcy1_x2GTvln7nKhA0NEVke63uDpDasGCYbDxhu4/edit

    Astushi: Ishii-san has created this document in Japanese on the
    state and issues on punctuation in Japanese regarding fonts &
    browsers.
    … Kida-san, as JL-TF chair, would like it to eventually be be a
    working note.

   RADAR Review

    <addison> [21]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

      [21] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

    Addison: There was a wide review that hasn't materialised. I
    will need to follow up on it.

   epub

    <xfq> [22]https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/pull/1899

      [22] https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/pull/1899

    xfq: This request was discusssed last week. I commented that
    there are lots of variations and unassigned code points. They
    changed it to exclude only language tag code points.

    r12a: We have no tracked on this PR

    <xfq> [23]https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/epub-specs/
    1899/1182db6...97f9b1b.html#sec-container-filenames

      [23] https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/epub-specs/1899/1182db6...97f9b1b.html#sec-container-filenames

    r12a: I will label it for tracking

    Addison: this is the last open issue that we have.

    xfq: agreed

    Addison: Should we write down policy about "don't exclude
    unless there is a reason". Should we codify as it seems file
    system safe.

    <r12a> [24]https://www.w3.org/TR/
    international-specs/#char_ranges

      [24] https://www.w3.org/TR/international-specs/#char_ranges

    r12a: This is about including and excluding character ranges,
    so we already have a clear guideline.

    r12a: This was historic, so may need updating

    Addison: Should we add something about filesystem safe
    characters or use the epub list?

    r12a: Unsure if that is the case

    xfq: There may be no tests or experiments

    Addison: they had something like this

    xfq: There are still no tests - so no surety

    Addison: This was based on vendor input

    r12a: We made some changes, did we miss other areas? Should we
    add it as informational, but refer them to epub's list

    Addison: shall we do anything more with this, or leave it for
    now.

    ACTION: addison: codify epub's character restrictions as
    guidance for specdev

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1097 - Codify epub's character
    restrictions as guidance for specdev [on Addison Phillips - due
    2021-11-25].

    Addison: Added placeholder

    Tracker issue can be closed

   string metadata in manifest

    <xfq> [25]https://github.com/w3c/manifest/issues/968

      [25] https://github.com/w3c/manifest/issues/968

    xfq: Filed this issue in April against web app manifest spec. I
    propose that we update it to a resolution issue.

    Addison: Why didn't we start it as "needs resolution"?

    <r12a> [26]https://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/
    reviews/#appmanifest

      [26] https://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/#appmanifest

    xfq: I'm not sure we've done a recent review of web manifest. I
    could not find ref to this one.

    xfq: They are confused with translation and localisation
    issues. They want to know about specific use cases where
    individual fields override.

    <xfq> [27]https://github.com/w3c/miniapp-manifest/pull/
    12#issuecomment-811624265

      [27] https://github.com/w3c/miniapp-manifest/pull/12#issuecomment-811624265

    xfq: I found no articles on overriding a whole document on
    this. So I wrote one. They are still asking for use-cases.

    xfq: Should we provide examples of single dir/lang changes
    override.

    <r12a> [28]https://w3c.github.io/
    string-meta/#bp_lang_field_based_metadata

      [28] https://w3c.github.io/string-meta/#bp_lang_field_based_metadata

    Addison: Set at string level as some strings have different
    properties to whole document.

    Addison: In this case a challenge is that these are displayed
    out of th context of the document, e.g when shown on home
    screen.

    xfq: I've added a link on one example.

    <xfq> [29]https://www.w3.org/International/articles/
    lang-bidi-use-cases/

      [29] https://www.w3.org/International/articles/lang-bidi-use-cases/

    <r12a> [30]https://www.w3.org/International/articles/
    strings-and-bidi/index.en

      [30] https://www.w3.org/International/articles/strings-and-bidi/index.en

    xfq: This is guidance, not a use case. Here is the article.

    r12a: Here's another article.

    Addison: This article could address their requirements

    <r12a> [31]https://www.w3.org/International/articles/
    lang-bidi-use-cases/#bidiCase2

      [31] https://www.w3.org/International/articles/lang-bidi-use-cases/#bidiCase2

    Addison: so, fisrt thing is that it needs a "needs resolution"
    marker and tracker. Will these articles suffice?

    <xfq> [32]https://github.com/w3c/miniapp-manifest/pull/
    12#issuecomment-811624265

      [32] https://github.com/w3c/miniapp-manifest/pull/12#issuecomment-811624265

    xfq: This is similar to the string meta article

    r12a: doesn't mention that the document may have a metadata
    set,

    r12a: doesn't account for neutral content that may need to be a
    different dir to the document.

    Addison: Shall I see what I can do?

    xfq: Here there is a start with latin characters...

    <r12a> [33]https://www.w3.org/International/articles/
    lang-bidi-use-cases/#ebook_example

      [33] https://www.w3.org/International/articles/lang-bidi-use-cases/#ebook_example

    r12a: but if the record was RTL, then you would need the
    override for latin text.

    r12a: If you didn't do that for the title field then everything
    would be incorrect.

    <r12a> Use cases for bidi and language metadata on the Web

    r12a: I may need to update the article in ^^^ if it isn't clear
    (in link above)

    ACTION: richard: review lang-bidi-use-cases for clarity of use
    cases of specific override

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1098 - Review lang-bidi-use-cases for
    clarity of use cases of specific override [on Richard Ishida -
    due 2021-11-25].

    Addison: anything more needed. Do you need help before we
    update the document?

    <r12a> [34]https://www.w3.org/TR/2020/
    REC-json-ld11-20200716/#example-77-overriding-default-language-
    and-default-base-direction-using-an-expanded-value

      [34] https://www.w3.org/TR/2020/REC-json-ld11-20200716/#example-77-overriding-default-language-and-default-base-direction-using-an-expanded-value

    r12a: You have the record set to RTL, but the title will be
    problematic, but have tagged the author and the direction null
    is questionable.

    xfq: I pointed to this before

    r12a: This won't help them understand as the example in the
    spec appears incorrect.

    Addison: there must be a way of getting errata into this.

    ACTION: xfq: file errata on json-ld @direction null example

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1099 - File errata on json-ld
    @direction null example [on Fuqiao Xue - due 2021-11-25].

    <Bert> There is a JSON-LD WG specifically charged with
    maintenance of the JSON-LD Rec. So making an errata can be left
    to them.

    addison: I will tidy up items and limit as list, on rader
    assignments

   Radar Assignments

    <addison> [35]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/
    member-i18n-core/2021Nov/0024.html

      [35] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Nov/0024.html

    r12a: what you are looking here, is which you raised hand
    … another set of items, without assignment, at bottom
    … not in lader at all, for these, assign someone, and check
    issues
    … another is in tracker but not in lader

    addison: pick later first. open issue exists without one in
    rader

    ACTION: addison: move and close unassigned with support from
    r12a

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1100 - Move and close unassigned with
    support from r12a [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-11-25].

    addison: will work on in column twice

    addison: for in rader but unassigned, dom is to Bert?

    xfq: many DOM snapshots, and rader is for which?

    bert: did one sometime ago...

    addison: saw some in needs-resolution

    [reviwing list in radar]

    r12a: two css-text at the same date?

    addison: close one

    r12a: take another look on these later
    … also take list into wiki, for further use


Summary of action items

     1. [36]xfq: ping jck about link to BCP47
     2. [37]addison: codify epub's character restrictions as
        guidance for specdev
     3. [38]richard: review lang-bidi-use-cases for clarity of use
        cases of specific override
     4. [39]xfq: file errata on json-ld @direction null example
     5. [40]addison: move and close unassigned with support from
        r12a
Received on Thursday, 18 November 2021 16:26:30 UTC

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