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[minutes] Internationalization telecon 2021-11-04

From: r12a <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 16:18:04 +0000
To: www-international@w3.org
Message-ID: <64e6b99d-34a6-39cf-a6d0-2bc94be2ebc3@w3.org>
https://www.w3.org/2021/11/04-i18n-minutes.html



– DRAFT –
            Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

04 November 2021

    [2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.

       [2] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Nov/0003.html
       [3] https://www.w3.org/2021/11/04-i18n-irc

Attendees

    Present
           addison, Atsushi, Bert, David, Fatima, Fuqiao, JcK,
           r12a, Richard

    Regrets
           Felix

    Chair
           Addison Phillips

    Scribe
           Bert

Contents

     1. [4]Agenda Review
     2. [5]Action Items
     3. [6]Info Share
     4. [7]RADAR Review
     5. [8]What time is this meeting at?
     6. [9]Whither trackbot?
     7. [10]IFD review
     8. [11]Closing the loop on Payment Request
     9. [12]AOB?
    10. [13]Summary of action items

Meeting minutes

    <addison> topic #i18n Remember the time change!!

    <r12a> see [14]https://www.w3.org/2017/09/
    i18n-meeting-info.html

      [14] https://www.w3.org/2017/09/i18n-meeting-info.html

   Agenda Review

   Action Items

    <addison> [15]https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/
    open

      [15] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

    action-1034?

    <trackbot> [16]action-1034: Addison Phillips to Triage awaiting
    comment resolution items -- due 2021-06-24 -- OPEN

      [16] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1034

    <addison> action-1090?

    <trackbot> [17]action-1090: Addison Phillips to Reach out to
    apa about potential joint publication of t2s ruby requirements
    with i18n -- due 2021-11-04 -- OPEN

      [17] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1090

    <addison> close action-1090

    <trackbot> Closed action-1090.

    action-1091?

    <trackbot> [18]action-1091: Atsushi Shimono to Create repo for
    ruby t2s doc -- due 2021-11-04 -- OPEN

      [18] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1091

    <atsushi> [19]https://w3c.github.io/ruby-t2s-req/

      [19] https://w3c.github.io/ruby-t2s-req/

    atsushi: I did.

    <addison> close action-1091

    <trackbot> Closed action-1091.

   Info Share

    <xfq> [20]https://www.w3.org/2021/
    Process-20211102/#changes-2020

      [20] https://www.w3.org/2021/Process-20211102/#changes-2020

    xfq: On Tuesday, Process 2021 was approved.
    … There is a new registries track.
    … But not required. Can also still make WDs and RECs.
    … NOTEs track now separate from REC track. So NOTE drafts are
    not called WD anymore, but Draft Note.
    … And a NOTE can be endorsed and become a Statement.

    r12a: Sounds like what we tried to avoid by publishing NOTEs
    instead of RECs...

    addison: Also interesting in the process: horizontal review for
    updating RECs is sketchily described.
    … I hope we don't get any ‘I want to update my REC next week’
    requests.

    r12a: We need to talk more with Philippe and stress reviews at
    the start.
    … URL vs URI, what is the reference for URIs?

    addison: The WHATWG spec on URL has a kind of profile for URI.

    JcK: RFC 3986/3987 is maybe half, a little too focused on http.

   RADAR Review

    Next week is 11 Nov, Armistice 1918 in France and the US.

    <addison> [21]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

      [21] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

    addison: No new review requests.

   What time is this meeting at?

    addison: I'll need to move the comments of Payment
    Confirmation, which we decided last time.

    addison: Current time OK?

    david_clarke: time OK for now, but not sure what my new job
    will be like.

    <addison> [22]https://everytimezone.com/?t=61832280,384

      [22] https://everytimezone.com/?t=61832280,384

   Whither trackbot?

    <r12a> [23]https://www.w3.org/2017/09/i18n-meeting-info.html

      [23] https://www.w3.org/2017/09/i18n-meeting-info.html

    addison: Trackbot is being deprecated. GitHub is recommended.
    How do we do action items now?

    trackbot, help?

    <trackbot> Please see <[24]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/
    irc> for help.

      [24] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc

    <addison> [25]https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc

      [25] https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc

    David_clarke: 16 years. Long-running software is good.

    xfq: If we still use it, they will still support it.

    r12a: That warning on the IRC page seems to have been there
    since 4 month. So we may not be in imminent dager.

    addison: Trackbot integration with IRC is nice. Could use a
    GitHub project board, but...

   IFD review

    <atsushi> [26]https://w3c.github.io/IFT/Overview.html

      [26] https://w3c.github.io/IFT/Overview.html

    <atsushi> [27]https://www.w3.org/TR/PFE-evaluation/

      [27] https://www.w3.org/TR/PFE-evaluation/

    atsushi: spec based on a report.
    … They tried to transfer per glyph, not code point.
    … This spec tries to transfer code points.
    … But seems not to be working.
    … Some fonts have dedicated glyphs.

    addison: Maybe if they also transfer all code points related to
    a given code point...

    atsushi: Maybe we should ask them.

    r12a: Chris and Myles [spec editors] should be aware of the
    issue.

    addison: In indic scripts, e.g., you may need all the
    vowel-marked and conjuncts.

    <r12a> [28]https://www.w3.org/TR/PFE-evaluation/

      [28] https://www.w3.org/TR/PFE-evaluation/

    addison: I don't quite see how this can be used. Maybe for
    simple fonts, when code point = glyph.

    r12a: The report shows some arabic glyphs. I cannot remember
    what my conclusions were when I read it :-(

    addison: The report contains the sort of things we talked
    about, so they do know.

    r12a: The conclusion (section 6) has something.

    addison: What does the last para, about massive cost increase,
    mean?

    david_clarke: Network latency?

    atsushi: compared to rendering time [scribe missed]

    addison: Do we have a question to ask them?

    r12a: Seems good to have a section about its usage. Although it
    does already point to the report.
    … Maybe a summary of the report can be added to set the scope
    of the spec. It seems it is not to be used for scripts that
    need shaping, e.g.

    xfq: It says there will be a separate document for other
    methods than Patch.

    david_clarke: There may be an issue with fingerprinting: if you
    download specific pieces of a font.

    r12a: Yes, that makes sense, for some kinds of small content.

    <xfq> [29]Privacy section is entirely missing

      [29] https://github.com/w3c/IFT/issues/31

    atsushi: Web fonts and caching, may be hard to fingerprint.

    addison: But I can place a rare glyph in a page and if you
    request it, I know you looked at the page.
    … atsushi, do you want to draft comments? Do you need help?

    atsushi: I would first ask why they choose to base it on code
    points rather than glyphs. I can draft a comment on GitHub.
    … I will add it to our tracker.

    addison: Don't wait to send it to them.
    … Should we raise a fingerprinting issue?

   Closing the loop on Payment Request

    <r12a> [30]https://github.com/w3c/payment-request/pull/971/
    files

      [30] https://github.com/w3c/payment-request/pull/971/files

    r12a: We could, but maybe not as a WG, as it is a security
    question [not i18n] question.

    r12a: pull request adds a note that seems to say all we asked
    for.

    addison: Might avoid the word ‘may’, as it is a technical term.

    r12a: I'd prefer not to avoid ‘may’ and rather style it
    specially when used normatively.

    xfq: As a note, it is non-normative in essence.

    addison: Shall I do a review and comment and approve?

    r12a: Yes, I think so.

    addison: Language negotiation is a separate thing.

    r12a: And we don't expect to resolve that before they publish
    this.

    addison: OK, I will approve it then.

    Action: addison: file review approving payment request text
    plus personal comment on 'may'

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1092 - File review approving payment
    request text plus personal comment on 'may' [on Addison
    Phillips - due 2021-11-11].

    Action: addison: ping localizable thread and seek to resolve
    next steps with whatwg

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1093 - Ping localizable thread and
    seek to resolve next steps with whatwg [on Addison Phillips -
    due 2021-11-11].

    addison: We should talk to TC39 about a datatype for
    localizable string. That's a slow process. Should I start it?

    Discussion about the words localization vs localizable vs
    internationalization.

    Action: addison: start conversation with ecma-402 et al about
    webidl work

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1094 - Start conversation with
    ecma-402 et al about webidl work [on Addison Phillips - due
    2021-11-11].

    addison: r12a, was there a response from Alan on CSS?
    … I reserved a slot in my agenda.

    Thanksgiving is the 25th.

   AOB?

    <r12a> s/<r12a> addison, i think you're an hour early//

    <r12a> s/<r12a> :-) good job !//

    <r12a> s/<addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference//

    <r12a> s/<addison> topic #i18n Remember the time change!!//

    <r12a> s/ :-) good job !//

    <r12a> s/ :-) good job !//

Summary of action items

     1. [31]addison: file review approving payment request text
        plus personal comment on 'may'
     2. [32]addison: ping localizable thread and seek to resolve
        next steps with whatwg
     3. [33]addison: start conversation with ecma-402 et al about
        webidl work
Received on Thursday, 4 November 2021 16:18:10 UTC

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