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[minutes] i18n telecon 2021-10-07

From: r12a <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2021 16:31:43 +0100
To: www-international@w3.org
Message-ID: <abe1ab95-6b94-06ac-b025-d45735f6b526@w3.org>
https://www.w3.org/2021/10/07-i18n-minutes.html












                              – DRAFT –
            Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

07 October 2021

    [2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.

       [2] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Oct/0002.html
       [3] https://www.w3.org/2021/10/07-i18n-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Atsushi

    Regrets
           Fatima, Felix, Fuqiao, JcK

    Chair
           Addison Phillips

    Scribe
           Bert

Contents

     1. [4]Agenda Review
     2. [5]Action Items
     3. [6]Info Share
     4. [7]RADAR Review
     5. [8]TPAC planning
     6. [9]Payment Request, Localizable, etc.
     7. [10]Summary of action items

Meeting minutes

    <addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference

   Agenda Review

   Action Items

    <addison> [11]https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/
    open

      [11] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

    action-1066?

    <trackbot> [12]action-1066: Richard Ishida to Move
    pronunciation-gap-analysis issues to new document -- due
    2021-08-26 -- OPEN

      [12] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1066

    r12a: catching up...

    <addison> action-1085?

    <trackbot> [13]action-1085: Addison Phillips to Respond to
    media streams and capture transreq with lack of satisfaction --
    due 2021-10-07 -- OPEN

      [13] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1085

    <addison> close action-1085

    <trackbot> Closed action-1085.

   Info Share

    <r12a> [14]https://github.com/w3c/documentreview/issues/
    24#issuecomment-937678531

      [14] https://github.com/w3c/documentreview/issues/24#issuecomment-937678531

    r12a: I talked with Philippe yesterday, among other things
    about how to keep the situation from occurring again, see
    thread ^^
    … Groups used to do a disposition of comments, but don't seem
    to do so anymore.
    … Philippe said it should not be up to the Director to find out
    about unclosed issues on our tracker.
    … There were also several things going on (family, etc.) at the
    same time.
    … Philippe suggested groups should send us email when there are
    things outstanding, before a transtion, whether days or monthts
    before.
    … That would help our work. We will know that a transition is
    coming.
    … As long as it is not as short as three days before the
    transition…

    addison: They can go to the tracking tool and see that we
    haven't closed an issue. That tells them they should take
    action.

    r12a: I suspect that the Web Payments WG didn't know to look at
    our tracker before requesting the transition.

    addison: We weren't satisfied with the issue. And we didn't
    know when the transition was going to be.

    r12a: Another infoshare:
    … What is the future of the ruby spec?

    addison: Problem seems getting browser vendors to spend time on
    it.

   RADAR Review

    <addison> [15]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

      [15] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

    <addison> [16]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/issues/165

      [16] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/issues/165

    addison: I set due date for Secure Payment to tomorrow, they
    didn't request a specific date.
    … We can talk about it next week.

   TPAC planning

    r12a: We planned several meetings. We need to get the list
    finished.
    … The cvent interface for TPAC shows videos and the calendar.
    … Calendar shows a slot for a joint meeting for us. Scheduling
    a meeting automatically assigns a Zoom meeting. I need to ask
    Alex about making a meeting that uses the same Zoom as another.
    … Not easy to make a joint meeting. Can block time on your own
    agenda, but others don't see it.
    … We had 2 slots for i18n meetings. (It was 3am for me, but now
    corrected to 3pm.)
    … I'll talk to Alex.

    <addison> [17]https://www.w3.org/wiki/I18N_2021_TPAC

      [17] https://www.w3.org/wiki/I18N_2021_TPAC

    addison: I'll add the a11y meeting to our wiki.
    … Other joint meetings are CSS and Web Payments.
    … One of our own meetings is at the usual time for our meeting,
    the other is Tuesday.

    r12a: If you tell me when the a11y meeting is, I'll add it to
    the agenda.
    … And I forwarded you (Addison) a mail I got with a meeting
    request.
    … Note that the cvent interface requires you to login again
    every 24 hours.
    … When joining a meeting, make sure you leave time for getting
    an email with your log in code.

    addison: Are there links for all this?

    r12a: Yes, on the TPAC pages.

    <r12a> [18]https://www.w3.org/2021/10/TPAC/

      [18] https://www.w3.org/2021/10/TPAC/

    <r12a> check out the CVENT calendar pages

    Action: addison: tell WG to register on CVENT

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1086 - Tell wg to register on cvent
    [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-10-14].

    <r12a> please all watch the videos about how TPAC will work

    Bert: A question: what is happening with the timezones
    database?

    addison: The maintainer decided to collapse a number of zones
    together that hadn't differed in a while. Result is that
    several time zone identifiers disappeared. E.g., no more Oslo,
    have to use Berlin instead. People were surprised about the
    change.
    … People are now cherrypicking which changes to keep.

    r12a: Why did the maintainer decide to merge zones?

    addison: Partly because of the size of the file. Clean up time
    zone that haven't been different for a long time.
    … Europe really only a handful of rules, not really all these
    different zones as listed in the database.
    … But governments could in principle change their own rules.
    Which would make a time zone pop back up.

   Payment Request, Localizable, etc.

    <r12a> [19]https://github.com/whatwg/webidl/issues/1025

      [19] https://github.com/whatwg/webidl/issues/1025

    addison: We did attract people's attention to the localization
    of strings and there are discussions going on now.

    r12a: Discussions at different levels.
    … Every spec ought to have a way to add language and direction
    to text.
    … Other level is whether we stick information at the end of
    string, e.g.

    addison: A lot of the thread is about whether the OS has
    metadata to put in the string, or whether the OS will use the
    metadata. It is a chicken-and-egg problem. If you don't have
    metadata, you can't use it.
    … IDL provides infrastructure for other specs.
    … That seems the right place to put things.
    … But maybe not the only place.

    r12a: I've had discussions, with Ian and others. I'm very open
    to how they do it, the technical ways. What's important is that
    the metadata exists somewhere.
    … They said it is only two strings, is it important?
    … I said yes. Other specs will look at it, as precedent.
    … They should acknowledge that data is missing and say that
    they will work on fixing it.
    … Ian said the label is only used on this sheet thing, only
    used by two companies, and not expected to be developed
    further.

    addison: They are used in Web Payments labels. I saw examples
    of payment requests with labels defined in Web Payments.

    r12a: I thought they said they would not do that.
    … But even if it is "only" Apple and Google that use this
    label, that is still a lot.

    <addison> [20]https://w3c.github.io/
    secure-payment-confirmation/#sctn-sample-authentication

      [20] https://w3c.github.io/secure-payment-confirmation/#sctn-sample-authentication

    r12a: WHAT WG discussions about implementing what is spec'ed or
    spec'ing what is implemented.

    addison: I had discussions about a backwards-compatible way to
    specify a localizable string.

    r12a: I heard a dictionary-based implementation may be
    difficult. Extra fields may be better.

    <r12a> [21]https://github.com/w3c/payment-request/pull/971

      [21] https://github.com/w3c/payment-request/pull/971

    r12a: In WHAT WG thread people wondered what other places the
    same issue applies. A list of specs with the same issue would
    be useful.

    addison: Yes, it would be.
    … We would probably need to triage them into different groups;
    document formats, JavaScript APIs...

    r12a: And manifests.

    addison: Yes, we have a Note about that. Could add stuff there.
    … Localization strategies for APIs, language negotiation.
    That's related to what the manifest note talks about.

    r12a: The name "Localizable" for the string with metadata may
    confuse people.

    addison: Maybe rather "Internationalized String"
    … I've been asked to review that pull request 971.
    … I'll try to make a list of specs with the issue.

    r12a: JLreq group was planning version 3, but now decided to
    write a different document. I proposed to leave the old stuff
    unchanged, it is mostly about print, and make a new repo for
    new things.

    addison: Focus on digital things, ebooks?

    r12a: Yes, ebooks and more. Processing in digital, rather than
    printing environment.
    … Also, where old document wrote about things, but sometimes
    left the recommendations open, this one will provide more
    guidance

    atsushi: We haven't discussed the writing style yet. We can
    refer to other spec or copy-paste. Topics such as handling
    different baselines.

    addison: My observation: Maybe consider writiing several
    smaller documents.

    r12a: They are doing that. They may be sucked into the larger
    document eventually.

    atsushi: We are producing topic-by-topic notes. Currently they
    still are all in Japanese.
    … Still trying define how describe width of characters (Zenkaku
    or Okuri).
    … Differences still exist.
    … There are complex misunderstandings about usage.

    Next week is Unicode conf, but we will have a call anyway.

    Addison will be physically at the conf. r12a via Zoom only.

Summary of action items

     1. [22]addison: tell WG to register on CVENT


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