- From: r12a <ishida@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2021 17:36:02 +0100
- To: www-international@w3.org
- Message-ID: <dcb4ce86-05e7-46ce-4ef3-1039689cc4fe@w3.org>
https://www.w3.org/2021/09/02-i18n-minutes.html – DRAFT – Internationalization Working Group Teleconference 02 September 2021 [2]Agenda. [3]IRC log. [2] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Aug/0018.html [3] https://www.w3.org/2021/09/02-i18n-irc Attendees Present Addison, Atsushi, David, Fuqiao, JcK, Richard Regrets Felix Chair Addison Phillips Scribe David Contents 1. [4]Agenda Review 2. [5]Action Items 3. [6]Info Share 4. [7]RADAR Review 5. [8]UAX50 change request to UTC from JLReq TF 6. [9]HTML snapshot review 7. [10]TPAC 8. [11]HTML 4814 9. [12]Summary of action items Meeting minutes <addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference <addison> scribenick David Atsushi: Did we sorto out TPAC plans Agenda Review Action Items <addison> [13]https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/ open [13] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open <addison> action-1039? <trackbot> [14]action-1039: Addison Phillips to Propose pr for https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/4814 -- due 2021-07-01 -- OPEN [14] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1039 Adison: 1039 Taken over for PR 4814 Stillo under discussion. On Agenda later. <addison> action-1060? <trackbot> [15]action-1060: Atsushi Shimono to Follow up on citpc/jltf request to utc about 4 characters and bring doc for review by wg when ready -- due 2021-08-26 -- OPEN [15] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1060 <addison> close action-1060 <trackbot> Closed action-1060. <addison> action-1061? <trackbot> [16]action-1061: Richard Ishida to Remove encoding tests and put a link to wpt tests -- due 2021-08-26 -- OPEN [16] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1061 Atsushi: sent emails to various parties. No upate on text from Zen Addison: 1063 in progress, leave open R12a: 1066 not done yet Addison: 1067 in progress <addison> action-1068? <trackbot> [17]action-1068: Addison Phillips to Put "foot in the door" for tpac and survey group for days/times -- due 2021-09-02 -- OPEN [17] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1068 <addison> close action-1068 <trackbot> Closed action-1068. <addison> action-1069? <trackbot> [18]action-1069: Addison Phillips to Ping chairs for tpac cross meetings -- due 2021-09-02 -- OPEN [18] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1069 Addison: 1068 Done - TPAC started <addison> close action-1069 <trackbot> Closed action-1069. Addison: 1069 pinged chairs for meetings Info Share R12a: Received a nomination from Glocal to join working group <r12a> [19]https://www.glocalqs.com/en/ Fátima Bana [19] https://www.glocalqs.com/en/ RADAR Review <addison> [20]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1 [20] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1 addison: 1 new3 incoming glanced at by r12a regarding CSS scroll bars Atsushi: agree with r12a Action: addison: reply to CSS about scrollbars <trackbot> Created ACTION-1070 - Reply to css about scrollbars [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-09-09]. addison: shal we move to done and inform CSS WG, and thank them for not causing I18n issues. addison: HTML draft - on Agenda later. NO reason to hold them back. Then reply with completed review. UAX50 change request to UTC from JLReq TF addison: UAX50 Do we need to discuss? r12a: Short summary useful r12a had a response from Kida-san . They wish to change character properties for some in vertical text. Wrote to ???. Onl y concern that W3C should have a mention. r12a: Can we publish it as a joint document? What does that mean? r12a: Naming w3C as a source doesn't seem like a problem. addison: Who would we reply to? r12a: it is only a change proposal for unicode. addison: no objection to it coming from us or them. addison: What value does the CITPC (Coded character-sets Information Technology Promotion Council) add? r12a: Having both orgs would be useful for the Japanese market atsushi: CITPC has many companies as members, so this could be a Japanese side issue. r12a: Kida-San thinks it would be good to be formally reviewed and also by the CLReq people. Action: richard: send UAX50 change request document for review by WG <trackbot> Created ACTION-1071 - Send uax50 change request document for review by wg [on Richard Ishida - due 2021-09-09]. r12a: everyone look at it when I send it, please. xfq: has discussed some changes in this request. e.g. full width semi-colon. Main difference is fallback in simplified Chinese xfq: This mainly a problem of mapping to the Adobe Japan character collection. People generally agree with the changes, but this in not the final draft. xfq: will share the final draft. This hasn't been shared with JLReq addison: it would be good if it is shared. <r12a> [21]https://github.com/CITPCSHARE/UAX50/wiki/ Request-to-revise-UAX-50-for-the-harmonization-with-Adobe-Japan 1 [21] https://github.com/CITPCSHARE/UAX50/wiki/Request-to-revise-UAX-50-for-the-harmonization-with-Adobe-Japan1 atsushi: We need to look at conflict between Chinese and Japanese Action: xfq: send feedback from clreq to jlreq on UAX50 proposed changes <trackbot> Created ACTION-1072 - Send feedback from clreq to jlreq on uax50 proposed changes [on Fuqiao Xue - due 2021-09-09]. r12a: Postioning it as a W3C and CITPC, can Atsushi take the lead? atsushi: I will, but may need some assistance Action: atsushi: coordinate CITPC and W3C publication of UAX50 change request <trackbot> Created ACTION-1073 - Coordinate citpc and w3c publication of uax50 change request [on Atsushi Shimono - due 2021-09-09]. jck: If these are going in as comment notes. Why not both submit their own comments and say that they have noted the other ones? addison: 1 formal request is needed. Whoever sends it, if we are sending, then we need to approve it. addison: There is strength to a Japanese org sending it. UTC will look at the factual arguments, whatever the source. jck: Agrees strongly r12a: Head of CITPC is also prominent on JLReq addison: Anthing more on this issue? HTML snapshot review <addison> [22]https://github.com/w3c/htmlwg/issues/17 [22] https://github.com/w3c/htmlwg/issues/17 addison: before TPAC talk about HTML Snapshot review addison: this is the regular snapshot. It has 3 I18n related issues. The look fine but others may have comments. addison: any thoughts jck: anything where there are BOM sniffing does worry me. addison: This does sniff the BOM. addison: Any objections? addison: no <r12a> no objection TPAC <xfq> [23]https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2021/GroupMeetings [23] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2021/GroupMeetings addison: For TPAC note sent to chairs saying we are avaailable, in particular Tuesday of that week. addison: That's the extent, so far. Time or day could be moved. addison: There were several invitations including from CSS, Accesibility. We can schedule the meetings r12a: Personalisation would like a meeting some time, TPAC is a long way off. We are blocking them. <addison> [24]https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2021/GroupMeetings [24] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2021/GroupMeetings addison: TPAC call, are there different preferences for how it should be set up? addison: 26th October is my initial date. addison: Tuesday r12a: Good for me. CSS was asking for us to join their meeting on Wednesday. addison: Time not set for our sessions. addison: allow for several hours, depending on topics. r12a: 2 hours would be good. We should schedule another on Thursday for 2 hours <addison> [25]https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/ issues/144 [25] https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/144 addison: Do we need to meet with A11y and consider the issues first, particularly pictures as alternatives for words. r12a: They aim to BLISS symbol numbers represent a concept but glyphs can be changed <r12a> [26]https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/ issues/144 [26] https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/144 addison: Fine for replace a noun with a picture of a noun, some verbs are reasonably replaceable. Can you define a grammar for compositional elements. r12a: only simple examples of composition given. addison: grammar and directionality are not addressed. addison: There was a working video at a TPAC several years ago. I'm still unclear about it. Was it too simplistic? addison: They were doing it with a Bidi language. <r12a> <r12a> Also, we have added a Hebrew example for symbols illustrating how to form a <r12a> conjugated term (see <r12a> [27]https://raw.githack.com/w3c/ personalization-semantics/edits07062020/content/ index.html#symbol-explanation [27] https://raw.githack.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/edits07062020/content/index.html#symbol-explanation <r12a> ). <r12a> ]] addison: People working on this are not linguists so may miss linguistic issues. addison: When do the want to meet? r12a: initially thought Mondays but then Tuesday was mentioned. r12a: dates suggested were last month r12a: 10am Boston so 14:00 UTC addison: r12a, shall we go? r12a: yes addison: to respond to them. Action: addison: respond to personalization-semantics that we can meet the 13th at 1400Z <trackbot> Created ACTION-1074 - Respond to personalization-semantics that we can meet the 13th at 1400z [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-09-09]. addison: CSS would like us to see them. Shall we negotiate a time? r12a: They suggested a time addison: Wed 27th 16:00 UTC r12a: works for me addison: and me addison: does anyone else want to join us? Action: addison: respond to CSS confirm 27 Oct at 1600Z for TPAC crossover meeting <trackbot> Created ACTION-1075 - Respond to css confirm 27 oct at 1600z for tpac crossover meeting [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-09-09]. r12a: we need a list in advance of talking points. Both what we want and what they care about. addison: r12a has an action to review CSS text decoration addison: who wants to review CSS open issues? r12a: we all should r12a: Who do we contact for CSS open issues r12a: we need to slect the most important Action: xfq: review CSS open issues for important items to resolve in TPAC xfq: I'll look <trackbot> Created ACTION-1076 - Review css open issues for important items to resolve in tpac [on Fuqiao Xue - due 2021-09-09]. addison: Webauthn needs more discussion, as we didn't finish last week HTML 4814 r12a: HTML 4814 <addison> [28]https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/4814 [28] https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/4814 <addison> [29]https://github.com/aphillips/html/commit/ b0135d2aee490ef9d40c8bdffce840353c2e0e08 [29] https://github.com/aphillips/html/commit/b0135d2aee490ef9d40c8bdffce840353c2e0e08 addison: I have a pull request against it <addison> [30]https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/ 7003#pullrequestreview-744095972 [30] https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/7003#pullrequestreview-744095972 addison: discussion of wording at the bottom r12a: You added "language appropriate case folding". Did you mean case conversion? r12a: I don't think there is a difference by language? addison: What about a string search that is language sensitive. r12a: there are some features like ignoring accents. The thrust is you need to normalise and case fold addison: In turkish you would lose linguistic information with a more promiscuous match. addison: Language appropriate case folding could map by language. addison: This is the purpose of CharMod, hence needing a document on searching strings and implementitions. r12a: We are mathching user input against a values. Is this string matching or string searching. i.e do you want to know if 2 strings match. addison: values should be filtered by substrings in the list. Then there are different to types of mathching e.g. accents kana/kana matching addison: we are adding "beware of the complexity of searching". addison: One working group in the past was working on Find. We poitned out many issues, unless it is purely string matching (maybe case insensitive). r12a: complexity could come with an esset for example. jck: this could be entering dangerous territory, whether ours or HTML's r12a: We go for a permissive approach jck: This could cause problems jck: This was what early Unicode talked about string mathching after folding. addison: User interaction will provide ??? r12a: I've added custom smarter matched to Uniview jck: that's a different matter to case folding r12a: if you type in Benin, with an e acute, should that match the ASCII Benin jck: forcing to ASCII is unreasonable r12a: more likely the other way around r12a: case folding is not a good place to start for string mathching addison: for tokens it is fine addison: that is the responsibilty of CharModNorm jck: even for identifiers there are issue with case sensitive environments. <addison> [31]https://w3c.github.io/string-search/ [31] https://w3c.github.io/string-search/ r12a: maybe case folding doesn't belong in this HTML spec addison: In a find command, there is normally an option to be case insensitive, or not. But you might need to be language sensitive manner. r12a: This is case mapping. You do the language tailoring for here. addison: string search doc in the link above. It was moved out of Charmod to keep for later. This is an example of it is really hard to describe than it looks. We need to write clearer specs, so we can identify the problems. jck: Clearer explanation of ??? would be very helpful. addison: Original intent was to warn of the complexities. r12a: does not think the Charmod Reference is useful. r12a: We need a searching document to point people at. Following this discussion this is about case matching not case folding. We don't want them to case fold. addison: It would be reasonable to have a case insensitve search, but warn of the challenges. r12a: that's case mapping, not case folding addison: it is case matching or caseless matching that we are interested in. addison: Shall I remove the sentence about normalisation and case folding? r12a: normalisation is important, but I think we should tale out case folding. r12a: We may need to mention case equivalence addison: I'll edit again for that. r12a: I will review later Summary of action items 1. [32]addison: reply to CSS about scrollbars 2. [33]richard: send UAX50 change request document for review by WG 3. [34]xfq: send feedback from clreq to jlreq on UAX50 proposed changes 4. [35]atsushi: coordinate CITPC and W3C publication of UAX50 change request 5. [36]addison: respond to personalization-semantics that we can meet the 13th at 1400Z 6. [37]addison: respond to CSS confirm 27 Oct at 1600Z for TPAC crossover meeting 7. [38]xfq: review CSS open issues for important items to resolve in TPAC
Received on Thursday, 2 September 2021 16:36:09 UTC