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[minutes] Internationalization telecon 2018-08-09

From: r12a <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 17:16:16 +0100
To: www International <www-international@w3.org>
Message-ID: <13f39819-04d6-25e8-c046-ea0036a2c85f@w3.org>
https://www.w3.org/2018/08/09-i18n-minutes.html





text version follows:


- DRAFT -

            Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

09 Aug 2018

    [2]Agenda

       [2] 
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2018Aug/0004.html

Attendees

    Present
           David, addison, xfq, r12a, stpeter

    Regrets
           JcK

    Chair
           Addison Phillips

    Scribe
           addison

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]Agenda and Minutes
          2. [5]Action Items
          3. [6]Info Share
          4. [7]RADAR and Active Work Review
          5. [8]Publish line break article
          6. [9]Length Limits in Specdev
          7. [10]AOB?
      * [11]Summary of Action Items
      * [12]Summary of Resolutions
      __________________________________________________________

    trackbot, prepare teleconference

    <agendabot> clear agenda

    <scribe> ScribeNick: addison

Agenda and Minutes

Action Items

    [13]https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

      [13] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

    action-729?

    <trackbot> action-729 -- Richard Ishida to And fantasai to
    write an article on ltr scripts historically written rtl -- due
    2018-06-28 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [14]https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/729

      [14] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/729

    close action-729

    <trackbot> Closed action-729.

    action-741?

    <trackbot> action-741 -- Addison Phillips to Reply to
    verifiable claims wgs request -- due 2018-08-09 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [15]https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/741

      [15] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/741

    close action-741

    <trackbot> Closed action-741.

    action-742?

    <trackbot> action-742 -- Richard Ishida to Look at merging
    specdev definitions with definitions-characters article -- due
    2018-08-09 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [16]https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/742

      [16] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/742

    richard: in the middle

Info Share

    <scribe> ACTION: addison: set up agenda for tpac

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-743 - Set up agenda for tpac [on
    Addison Phillips - due 2018-08-16].

RADAR and Active Work Review

    [17]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/projects/1

      [17] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/projects/1

    [18]http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/projects/

      [18] http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/projects/

    richard: was sent a doc in word on mongolian
    ... wrote back to them, but limited English
    ... joined team call in beihang this week
    ... xfq following up
    ... bit of movement on india, next meeting tomorrow
    ... dev support

    <r12a> [19]https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/2982

      [19] https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/2982

    richard: raised issue on paged media
    ... link above
    ... education and outreach
    ... preparing talk slides
    ... going to speak at workshop on manga in JP for 15 minutes
    ... intro what we're doing esp. on lang enabling
    ... then the unicode conference
    ... and 15 minutes at tpac
    ... extend the slides for joint presentation with addison
    ... and speaking at parisweb

    [20]http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/

      [20] http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/

Publish line break article

    richard:
    [21]http://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/articles/typography/linebr
    eak.en
    ... think comments have dried up so done with this and would
    like to publish
    ... any objections?

      [21] http://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/articles/typography/linebreak.en

    addison: all in favor indicate +1/0/-1 in irc

    +1

    <r12a> +1

    <r12a>
    [22]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3
    Aclosed

      [22] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/issues?q=is:issue+is:closed

    <xfq> +1

    <stpeter> +1

    <David> +1

    so resolved

    richard: will move on to q element

Length Limits in Specdev

    [23]https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev

      [23] https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev

    richard: first a pull request

    <r12a> [24]https://github.com/r12a/bp-i18n-specdev/

      [24] https://github.com/r12a/bp-i18n-specdev/

    [25]https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/29/commits/2fd7
    2988e0ac6fe98e4535edf9073571d097bca0

      [25] 
https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/29/commits/2fd72988e0ac6fe98e4535edf9073571d097bca0

    <xfq>
    [26]https://rawgit.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/2fd72988e0ac6fe98e45
    35edf9073571d097bca0/index.html

      [26] 
https://rawgit.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/2fd72988e0ac6fe98e4535edf9073571d097bca0/index.html

    <r12a>
    [27]https://www.w3.org/International/articles/definitions-chara
    cters/index

      [27] 
https://www.w3.org/International/articles/definitions-characters/index

    richard: can we accept this PR?

    addison: I think so

    richard: in definitions-characters
    ... need to add a new section
    ... will send in due course

    <r12a> [28]https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/issues/28

      [28] https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/issues/28

    [29]https://rawgit.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/2fd72988e0ac6fe98e45
    35edf9073571d097bca0/index.html#characters

      [29] 
https://rawgit.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/2fd72988e0ac6fe98e4535edf9073571d097bca0/index.html#characters

    <David> R12a: The issues are numbered... The 3rd one conflates
    grapheme and user-perceived character

    <David> Addison: Was written quickly and the variation between
    terms is not often relevant.

    <David> R12a: Will write more. Glyph and user percieved
    grapheme is the same to a viewer.

    <David> Addison: The challenge is to introduce extended
    grapheme cluster concept, in the article.

    <David> R12a: will not define Grapheme. Glyph is used
    interchaneably

    <David> R12a: Different glyphs can represent the same user
    perceived character

    <David> ... there may be multiple glyphs (defined shape in
    font) to multiple graphemes

    <David> Addison: compressing Grapheme cluster to grapheme, in
    order to simplify for the readed.

    <David> Addison: There is a progression from elements to
    displayed characters

    <David> R12a: Section 5. Tautology in describing user perceived
    characters

    <David> Addison: Yes, but there is more needed to clarify

    <David> R12a: Multiple glyphs may represent a single user
    perceived character

    <David> Addison: Moving from theoretical to visuals perceived.

    <David> R12a: Need to mention CSS "Typographic character unit"
    it is indivisible for operations on the text.

    <r12a> It is standard to backwards delete codepoints, but to
    forward delete grapheme clusters.

    <David> R12a: This needs to be tied to the other terms

    <David> R12a: number 7

    <David> Addison: not quite correct that you can't cursor into
    grapheme clusters.

    <David> R12a: Complex scripts do require partial replacement
    inside clusters for syllables on errors.

    <David> R12a: would like to move back one and delete, then
    replace inside the character

    <David> Addison: Not appropriate for emoji and some selection
    cases.

    <David> ... might work better with Typographic character unit
    instead of grapheme cluster

    <David> R12a: section 8

    <David> Addison: this is area is full of jargon that make it
    difficult for most people to understand

    <David> ... We need to take care to repurpose grapheme, and
    this is a specification so needs precision

    <David> ... TPU is not completely clear

    <David> stpeter: agree with R12a's target audience

    <David> Addison: We need to refine the set to the required
    usage, only, rather than fully detailed as e.g. CSS require

    [30]https://rawgit.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/2fd72988e0ac6fe98e45
    35edf9073571d097bca0/index.html#char_truncation

      [30] 
https://rawgit.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/2fd72988e0ac6fe98e4535edf9073571d097bca0/index.html#char_truncation

    <David> Addison: Is really working with the truncation issue
    and these terms need to be used meaningfully.

    <David> R12a: Will rewrite the article and check with Addison.

    <David> Addison: agreed

    <David> Addison: We need to choose script for examples. In
    example 5: to demonstrate that length limits

    <David> Addison: Using byte length limits decrease the number
    of available characters as you go up in unicode code-points

    <David> Addison: Will refine Cyrilic/Chinese script examples

    <David> ... Emoji are the best 4 byte example

    <David> R12a: complex scripts with combining characters reduce
    the size from bytes radically

    [31]http://w3c.github.io/charmod-norm/

      [31] http://w3c.github.io/charmod-norm/

    <David> Addison: Has done edits on charmod

    <David> ...new case folding and terminology content

AOB?

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: addison: set up agenda for tpac

Summary of Resolutions

    [End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 9 August 2018 16:16:26 UTC

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