[minutes] Internationalization telecon 2017-03-23


text extract follows:


            Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

23 Mar 2017



    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2017/03/23-i18n-irc


           Addison, Richard, David, Fantasai

           Felix, Steven, JcK

           Addison Phillips



      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Agenda
          2. [6]Action Items
          3. [7]Info Share
          4. [8]Radar
          5. [9]writing modes
          6. [10]Accept WHATWG change to restrictions on bidi
          7. [11]indexeddb review
          8. [12]AOB?
      * [13]Summary of Action Items
      * [14]Summary of Resolutions

    <scribe> ScribeNick: addison


Action Items


    <trackbot> action-596 -- Addison Phillips to Adjust the agenda
    to reflect use of uk time for meeting and update links to
    dateandtime -- due 2017-03-16 -- OPEN


      [15] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/596

    to be completed for this coming week


    <trackbot> action-600 -- Addison Phillips to Prepare and submit
    encoding refresh -- due 2017-03-16 -- OPEN


      [16] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/600

    addison to ping anne for quiet time

    <scribe> ACTION: richard: move the encoding tracking table to
    github so addison can update it [recorded in

      [17] http://www.w3.org/2017/03/23-i18n-minutes.html#action01

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-604 - Move the encoding tracking
    table to github so addison can update it [on Richard Ishida -
    due 2017-03-30].


      [18] https://github.com/aphillips/encoding


    <trackbot> action-601 -- Richard Ishida to Check comment status
    for uievents specs -- due 2017-03-23 -- OPEN


      [19] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/601

    close action-601

    <trackbot> Closed action-601.

    richard: did that, close one, some still need response


    <trackbot> action-602 -- Richard Ishida to Make shacl comments
    in felix's email into issues and/or commenting on sandro's
    comments and labeling them -- due 2017-03-23 -- OPEN


      [20] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/602

    richard: done

    close action-602

    <trackbot> Closed action-602.

    addison: they went for CR today so check comment status


    <trackbot> action-603 -- Richard Ishida to Respond to payment
    request api comment to make sure that direction only applies to
    one string at a time or to override for a specific string in a
    collection -- due 2017-03-23 -- OPEN


      [21] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/603

    close action-603

    <trackbot> Closed action-603.

Info Share

    fantasai: looking for info on text decoration issues

    richard: point to list of things you need?



    fantasai: some need i18n input


      [23] https://drafts.csswg.org/css-text-decor-3/issues-cr-2013

    <fantasai> says '=i18n=' needs input from i18n

    fantasai: anything in the above link
    ... CSS taking writing modes to PR
    ... in month or so



      [24] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/projects/1

    <scribe> ACTION: richard: checks status of svg2 comments
    [recorded in

      [25] http://www.w3.org/2017/03/23-i18n-minutes.html#action02

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-605 - Checks status of svg2 comments
    [on Richard Ishida - due 2017-03-30].


      [26] http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/projects/

    <r12a> [27]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/projects/1

      [27] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/projects/1

    richard: updated the article pipeline
    ... last friday gave a presentation in tokyo
    ... bridging gap between jlreq and implementation
    ... seems to have gone well, some initiatives in place to work
    on closing gaps
    ... talk not yet available on web in english, but is available
    in chinese

    <r12a> [28]http://www.typeisbeautiful.com/2017/03/11613/

      [28] http://www.typeisbeautiful.com/2017/03/11613/

    richard: attendee translated to chinese and put on his blog at
    above link
    ... what I said was
    ... recent member sub is useful to a point
    ... needs maintain
    ... needs more detail and prioritization
    ... so have a roadmap, that'll help css
    ... do it at a lower level than recent sub
    ... which was "vertical works pretty well"
    ... jp community should organize so can pull together and and
    show pain points
    ... interest in doing a course
    ... on bidi
    ... very early heads up
    ... did a bunch of requirements to specdev
    ... vertical text and ruby in more detail
    ... bit about text decoration
    ... largely from ttml

writing modes

    richard: summary of chinese experts discuss
    ... and on 3 issues from ttml

    <r12a> For subtitling, no-one has seen vertical-lr, and very
    little vertical-rl in chinese too.

    <r12a> Straight or wavy lines alongside the text are mostly
    used for things such as book-title or name highlighting, rather
    than for emphasis like in Latin-script text underlines. Lines
    alongside vertical text should appear on the opposite side of
    items such as emphasis marks, ruby, etc (avoids interference),
    but most felt that lines (straight or wavy) always appear to
    the left of the vertical line.

    <r12a> Emphasis marks (eg. dots) by default appear on the left
    side, but could be right.

    <r12a> Bopomofo ruby always appears on the right side, and
    pinyin ruby or hanzi ruby normally appear on the right too.

    richard: summary of discussion above

    vertical-lr is mainly exceptional

    richard: mostly used for book titles & name highlighting
    ... jp: right (before) side
    ... in left-to-right lines
    ... one person disagreed or wasn't sure
    ... difference between jp and zh
    ... mongolian on right hand side in vertical and below in

    fantasai: have info on jp and ko in spec now but need mongolian

    richard: thinking of sending issues

    <r12a> [29]https://github.com/w3c/type-samples/issues/55

      [29] https://github.com/w3c/type-samples/issues/55

    richard: here's an example from type samples

    <r12a> [30]https://github.com/w3c/type-samples/issues/56

      [30] https://github.com/w3c/type-samples/issues/56

    <fantasai> ohhhhhh, you have a database of type samples????

    <fantasai> I totally have stuff for you

    richard: here's an example so-called underlining

    <fantasai> <3 <3 <3 <3

    <r12a> [31]https://w3c.github.io/type-samples/

      [31] https://w3c.github.io/type-samples/

    richard: please to add samples
    ... ttml doesn't have a sideways-rl/lr for writing mode
    ... expected text-orientation would do that
    ... explained how css changed
    ... really useful for horizontal scripts, like start and end,
    line breaks etc
    ... should consider it
    ... instead of rotating the glyphs, rotate the box

    fantasai: better ergonomics for the author: don't have to set
    two properties
    ... reduced the number of combinations
    ... that weren't important

    richard: in ttml it's not handled properly

    <fantasai> correctness wasn't an issue in original Writing
    Modes; it *was* in XSL:FO, though

    <fantasai> TTML must've been copying XSL:FO model

    richard: in tblr used default positions
    ... and in mongolian would be wrong
    ... don't think chinese would be right to position ruby et al
    ... wasn't able to convince them
    ... mongolians may feel unhappy
    ... and mongolian is prime user of tblr
    ... they are putting in a note
    ... don't want to change default
    ... could introduce over/under
    ... maybe in ttml-next
    ... change default for tblr specifically
    ... want to know about sideways-*
    ... at risk might not get impls
    ... could be deferred to level 4

    fantasai: chrome planning to work on it
    ... in next year or two??
    ... jp wants writing modes asap
    ... defer sideways into a level 4
    ... but chrome would not defer

    richard: arabic layout folks want for arabic

    fantasai: as soon as implemented go to rec

    richard: preceded css, just a timing of introduction

    fantasai: will publish forked off level 3 without that section
    ... some process question about can we go direct to CR
    ... but looking to get sideways-* asap to cr

    richard: no plans to change it
    ... way forward for ttml

    fantasai: will publish simultaneous

Accept WHATWG change to restrictions on bidi

    richard: whatwg stripped out checking for unpaired unicode bidi
    ... because things not checking correctly
    ... to complicated to understand
    ... actioned to ask aharon and mati
    ... "it's complicated" was reply
    ... travis is waiting on us
    ... so suspect say "okay"

    addison: what's the side effect?

    fantasai: only changes conformance checkers really
    ... concerns about user-generated data are solved by isolation

    (no objections)

    <scribe> ACTION: richard: tell travis to go ahead removing bidi
    controls text from html5 and whatwg [recorded in

      [32] http://www.w3.org/2017/03/23-i18n-minutes.html#action03

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-606 - Tell travis to go ahead
    removing bidi controls text from html5 and whatwg [on Richard
    Ishida - due 2017-03-30].

    <fantasai> r12a:

      [33] http://fantasai.inkedblade.net/style/scans/

indexeddb review

    richard: look at support for bidi text in strings
    ... comes up in every review

    addison: yep


      [34] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/360


      [35] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/361


      [36] http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/#indexeddb


      [37] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/362


      [38] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/363

    make clearer that we are NOT asking for normalization, just the
    health warning


      [39] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/364


      [40] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/365


      [41] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/366


      [42] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/367


      [43] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/375


Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: richard: checks status of svg2 comments [recorded
    in [44]http://www.w3.org/2017/03/23-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: richard: move the encoding tracking table to
    github so addison can update it [recorded in
    [NEW] ACTION: richard: tell travis to go ahead removing bidi
    controls text from html5 and whatwg [recorded in

      [44] http://www.w3.org/2017/03/23-i18n-minutes.html#action02
      [45] http://www.w3.org/2017/03/23-i18n-minutes.html#action01
      [46] http://www.w3.org/2017/03/23-i18n-minutes.html#action03

Summary of Resolutions

    [End of minutes]

Received on Thursday, 23 March 2017 17:29:01 UTC