[minutes] Internationalization telecon 2017-05-04



            Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

04 May 2017



    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-i18n-irc


           Addison, Bert, David, Jan, najib, r12a

           Steven, Jck_(?)

           Addison Phillips

           addison, Bert


      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Agenda
          2. [6]Action Items
          3. [7]Info Share
          4. [8]Radar Review
          5. [9]Default base direction for documents
          6. [10]OWL-Time and urgent reviews
          7. [11]Support for bidi in strings
      * [12]Summary of Action Items
      * [13]Summary of Resolutions

    <addison> ScribeNick: addison


Action Items


      [14] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open


    <trackbot> action-552 -- Addison Phillips to Write to json-ld
    about potential for a serialization form for natural language
    strings to address issues with dir and lang -- due 2016-09-29
    -- OPEN


      [15] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/552


    <trackbot> action-554 -- Addison Phillips to Work to schedule a
    review of microformats -- due 2017-03-30 -- OPEN


      [16] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/554


    <trackbot> action-611 -- Addison Phillips to Contact martin to
    see if unicode-xml will be worked on soon so that wg can decide
    if alternate next steps are needed -- due 2017-04-27 -- OPEN


      [17] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/611

    close action-611

    <trackbot> Closed action-611.

    <scribe> ACTION: addison: update unicode-xml to indicate
    current status [recorded in

      [18] http://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-i18n-minutes.html#action01

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-616 - Update unicode-xml to indicate
    current status [on Addison Phillips - due 2017-05-11].


    <trackbot> action-612 -- Addison Phillips to Create a bidi/lang
    recommendations document in order to go to tag -- due
    2017-04-27 -- OPEN


      [19] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/612


    <trackbot> action-614 -- Addison Phillips to Ping anne about
    encoding tests (reviewing, etc.) -- due 2017-04-27 -- OPEN


      [20] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/614

    addison: not sure what to expect from anne

    richard: henri going through tests
    ... and some others
    ... couple of changes as a result
    ... do they want to change or should I?
    ... question is: see you/folks are finding time to look at
    ... what do you see as next steps?
    ... how should we be involved?


    <trackbot> action-615 -- Addison Phillips to Finalize floating
    time article for publication -- due 2017-05-04 -- OPEN


      [21] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/615

    <scribe> ACTION: richard: give addison access to i18n-drafts
    [recorded in

      [22] http://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-i18n-minutes.html#action02

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-617 - Give addison access to
    i18n-drafts [on Richard Ishida - due 2017-05-11].

Info Share

    welcoming Bert Bos

    bert: more than 20 years ago created the WG
    ... have been in the group before
    ... but have been doing other things, such as CSS
    ... html, xml, mathml, traction protection
    ... that's teh DNT header
    ... at W3C a long time
    ... since this group is looking for help reviewing
    ... sounded interesting. hope to learn a bit more about the
    things I'm reviewing and i18n

Radar Review


      [23] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/projects/1

    Bert: will take ORDL


      [24] http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/projects/

    richard: changing tests for unicode bidi in css
    ... in writing modes
    ... bidi isolation didn't work according to test results page
    ... couple of other values
    ... but now do seem to work, checked FF
    ... and chrome seems same
    ... still behind with Edge



    richard: did work on JS course for EdX
    ... sent comments
    ... not a lot to say but a few things
    ... talking about strings in later section

    addison: need to add the text about supplementary charasters,
    drafting reply to your email

    najib: have some tests for rare cases
    ... of isolation


      [26] http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/


      [27] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/399

Default base direction for documents



    richard: two links, first is to a ttml issue
    ... there should be an 'auto' value
    ... largely about usefulness of auto for insertion of text
    ... but another way it can be useful
    ... can be useful as "overall direction" for the document
    ... currently we say that the default should be ltr
    ... so if you run across ARabic and don't mark it, it will look
    ... default auto would use strong character in text to

    addison: inherits down

    richard: TTML uses xsl model for establishing direction in ttml
    ... region auto
    ... only have to supply span in cases where rtl paragraphs or
    spans don't start with a strong
    ... suggested this to webvtt I think?
    ... think they accepted
    ... mati thought it sounded logical

    najib: agree on the intention
    ... it depends on the text in question
    ... if the text is in an html page
    ... page normally begins with title
    ... title may not have same text as normal paragraph

    <najib> [29]http://www.w3c.org.ma/Press/securewebauthwg.ar.html

      [29] http://www.w3c.org.ma/Press/securewebauthwg.ar.html

    najib: have many texts that being with "W3C... (something)..."
    ... so always start with a first strong of "W"

    richard: those are cases that have to be addressed
    ... if ttml is by default auto
    ... dont' have to add rtl at doc top in every doc
    ... in sitution like w3c---something--- have to do something

    addison: concerned about layout effects of this

    richard: could do a couple of things,
    ... in spec-dev could say make default auto
    ... or say ltr-or-auto
    ... with discussion of pros-cons
    ... true for new formats. for ttml not probably usable
    ... xsl model, overall direction for region derives from
    ... css no longer includes text direction in writing-mode
    ... writing-mode has no allowance for auto
    ... TTML use the XSL model and so already have vast number -
    adding auto would increase that substantially of values for
    ... but wanted to bring up question

    David: support this
    ... if ltr default and we change
    ... won't break anything I think

    addison: suggest we go to larger community?

    <scribe> ACTION: richard: create a short document about making
    direction default recommendation to be 'auto' and send to
    www-international@ for review [recorded in

      [30] http://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-i18n-minutes.html#action03

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-618 - Create a short document about
    making direction default recommendation to be 'auto' and send
    to www-international@ for review [on Richard Ishida - due

OWL-Time and urgent reviews


      [31] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?utf8=✓&q=is:issue 
is:open label:owl-time

    <Bert> scribenick: Bert

    addison: Most key thing is OWL time describes a whole bunch of
    things, non-gregorian calendars, etc.
    ... Fine from LOD POV, but

    <addison> [32]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/405

      [32] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/405

    addison: looks problematic from i18n.
    ... Time zones don't use IANA IDs.
    ... And maybe there's a false assumption about how TZs work, in
    terms of offset.

    r12a: Is that in one of their examples?

    addison: Yes
    ... The standard for time zone in general is IANA.
    Dateandtime.com has their own, not IANA.
    ... The example uses abbreviations.

    r12a: Level of coverage?

    addison: I'm not sure about the level of coverage.

    r12a: The example is not a real site...

    <addison> [33]https://www.timeanddate.com/time/zones/aest

      [33] https://www.timeanddate.com/time/zones/aest

    addison: Sorry, it's the domain ^^^

    r12a: No objection from me to sending this comment.

    <addison> [34]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/404

      [34] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/404

    r12a: As separate comments?

    addison: Yes
    ... Need links to Gregorian calendar for "general"

    <addison> [35]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/403

      [35] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/403

    addison: Time units week, etc. can take decimal value: "6.7
    ... Not entirely clear what those periods are.

    <addison> [36]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/402

      [36] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/402

    r12a: Comment sounds good to me.

    addison: Week number from ISO, but different countries count
    weeks differently.

    r12a: Several countries have different first days for the week,

    addison: This is also about what is the first week.

    <addison> [37]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/401

      [37] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/401

    r12a: "First week of the year is the week containing the first
    Thursday". Is that an attempt to get around that?
    ... Might be good to add some of that detail to your comment.

    addison: Description of time zone: they say it's a region and
    an offet, but it is really a bit more than that.
    ... And the possibility of future changes.

    r12a: You might want to point to them to one of our documents,

    <addison> [38]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/400

      [38] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/400

    <addison> probably www.org/TR/timezone

    addison: Last issue is conversion to Gregorian.
    ... Most times have a defined relation to Gregorian.
    ... Any comments or objections to these six issues?

Support for bidi in strings

    addison: Do we want to talk about bidi strings today? We have 3

    r12a: Happy to.



    addison: I pointed to our other docs about lang. and base
    ... Added quick pros and cons.
    ... Example of Payment API spec added dictionary pattern.

    r12a: Biggest comment is that Tantek will probably say there is
    a third option: use control characters from Unicode.

    addison: That doesn't solve the language problem.

    r12a: But it is worth mentioning.

    addison: As a "Solution 3" that we don't recommend?

    r12a: Not sure it's a solutuion 3.

    <r12a> could be just an additional paragraph

    <addison> Note: Leonie's request was about ARIA

    <r12a> ok

    <r12a> will you reply?

    <r12a> addison: yep

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: addison: update unicode-xml to indicate current
    status [recorded in
    [NEW] ACTION: richard: create a short document about making
    direction default recommendation to be 'auto' and send to
    www-international@ for review [recorded in
    [NEW] ACTION: richard: give addison access to i18n-drafts
    [recorded in

      [40] http://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-i18n-minutes.html#action01
      [41] http://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-i18n-minutes.html#action03
      [42] http://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-i18n-minutes.html#action02

Summary of Resolutions

    [End of minutes]

Received on Thursday, 4 May 2017 16:15:13 UTC