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[Bug 28257] [webvtt] start/end linked to left/right [I18N-ISSUE-422]

From: <bugzilla@jessica.w3.org>
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 21:01:53 +0000
To: www-international@w3.org
Message-ID: <bug-28257-4285-Dd4yQQIPsR@http.www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/>

--- Comment #35 from Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com> ---
(In reply to Simon Pieters from comment #34)
> > But now that I think back, I think we changed it.
> Yep.
> > I think it was a use case from YouTube where they had a 50% wide box with
> > left aligned LTR text and were surprised when the box flipped over to the
> > other side after a translation. That was was unexpected because the box had
> > been reduced to avoid stuff on screen. Basically the argument was that a
> > translation should not move the text box.
> Right. So then we shouldn't move the box to the right for RTL, even though
> doing so would "make sense" in isolation.

Yeah, I think it has to stay where it would when it's LTR text. Basically,
we're saying that LTR determines the box position. If you have RTL, you have to
put explicit positioning on it with the offset.

> > For WebVTT, I would think it's the first line that determines the position
> > of the box.
> (It was until it was changed based on feedback from YouTube to not do
> that...)

Yeah, it does seem unfair between LTR and RTL text. But maybe that's ok? I'd be
curious about thoughts from actual RTL captioners!

> The remaining question is what is the least bad option: the current spec
> (align:start moves the box to the left) or my proposal (align:start leaves
> the box centered)?

I'd suggest moving it to the left. For a LTR box this is the natural thing to
do and what captioners expect. This also covers the case where you're
captioning in a LTR language and then add translations automatically. If the
captioner instead starts captioning in RTL, the box is so obviously in the
wrong position that they will probably explicitly position it anyway.

> The main reason I think my proposal is less bad is that moving the box to
> the left is "wrong" for RTL text, but leaving it centered is not.

Leaving it centered is also wrong, too. For RTL text that is in a 50% box and
start aligned, it should be positioned at the right edge if there was not the
translation use case.

> Having
> semantics where a keyword "start" doesn't reflect base directionality of the
> text confuses the terminology.

'align:start' still makes the text inside the box align correctly. It's just
the box position that is confusing.

> Bidi is confusing as it is, we shouldn't make
> it worse.

Yeah, I worry about that, too.

Alternatively, we could ignore the translation use case and say that if you
have intended to explicitly position the box on the left, you have to put a
'position:0%' on it, too, otherwise the box might move if the text
directionality changes. A validator could even raise a warning in this case.


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Received on Monday, 15 February 2016 21:01:55 UTC

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