[minutes] Internationalization telecon 2014-12-11


text version follows:

Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

11 Dec 2014



    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-i18n-irc


           Addison, Richard, Xiaoqian, Bobby, Steve, JcK, Mati,
           David, Leandro, Somnath, Felix

           Addison Phillips

           Addison Phillips


      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Agenda
          2. [6]Action Items
          3. [7]Info Share
          4. [8]RADAR and Active Work Review
          5. [9]Indic Layout Requirements FPWD Transition Request
          6. [10]Review the Chinese Layout Task Force charter
          7. [11]Review of XSLT 3.0 is due
          8. [12]AOB?
      * [13]Summary of Action Items


Action Items


      [14] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open


    <trackbot> action-113 -- Richard Ishida to Work on tidying up
    Additional Requirements for Bidi in HTML & CSS over coming
    couple of months -- due 2012-04-11 -- OPEN


      [15] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/113

    richard: sent email aharon, porting document to respec


    <trackbot> action-356 -- Leandro Reis to Work on converting
    cldr alphabetic index data to css predefined counter styles
    using automatic means, evaluating suitability of the data, and
    report back to wg -- due 2014-11-06 -- OPEN


      [16] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/356

    leandro: ticket open on cldr
    ... open 2 months now
    ... and then need to help them
    ... sent sample output to richard and addison

    richard: didn't have time to look more than briefly

    addison: ditto

    leandro: so script ready. just need data

    close action-356

    <trackbot> Closed action-356.

    <scribe> ACTION: leandro: follow up with cldr ticket to add
    counter style data [recorded in

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-383 - Follow up with cldr ticket to
    add counter style data [on Leandro Reis - due 2014-12-18].

    <Leandro> CLDR ticket about adding counter style characters to
    data files: [18]http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/7954

      [18] http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/7954


    <trackbot> action-360 -- Xiaoqian Wu to Survey publishers if
    there are requirements for additional/more specific styles in
    chinese e-books -- due 2014-11-06 -- OPEN


      [19] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/360

    xiaoqian: didn't get helpful feedback yet

    close action-367

    <trackbot> Closed action-367.

    close action-371

    <trackbot> Closed action-371.

    close action-378

    <trackbot> Closed action-378.

    <r12a> somnath, we lost you

    somnath: responded to norbert's comments
    ... norbert agreed that other comments are okay

    close action-379

    <trackbot> Closed action-379.

    richard: another person commented (haridam?)

    somnath: already responded to him
    ... he's okay
    ... requested he send an email to that effect

    richard: need to send to indic list

    somnath: will send reply to public list also

    close action-380

    <trackbot> Closed action-380.


    <trackbot> action-381 -- John Klensin to Check on eai
    documentation pages and send a link to the wg -- due 2014-12-11
    -- OPEN


      [20] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/381

    addison: will double check I saw it


      [21] https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/EAI_Address_Issues

    close action-381

    <trackbot> Closed action-381.

Info Share

    somnath: comment on CL TF item
    ... some institutions in india would like to contribute to
    Tibetan layout

    richard: just finishing charter
    ... there will be links/process to join
    ... previous assumption was TF would work in Chinese, but
    others outside China also interested

    JcK: next draft of document "what to do about lang dependent
    code points"



    addison: next meeting will be our last of the year

    JcK: next week regrets

    richard: next week potential regrets

    <r12a> regrets from Richard until 15th Jan meeting

RADAR and Active Work Review


      [23] https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Review_radar

    <Bobby> Fantasai just done the initial letter

    <Bobby> should we add the inline layout level 3 to the review

    bobby, can you send me a link to the document?

    <Bobby> [24]http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-inline/

      [24] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-inline/

    will add, thanks

    addison: will shepherd Web Annotation Data Model

    richard: looked at that. they use dc:language
    ... uses RFC 5646 rather than bcp47

    <r12a> but with BCP47 values

    felix: that link says
    ... the text must be normalized
    ... that may be something to look at
    ... no definitiion of what normalized is
    ... a few other things

    richard: do you normalize it for the process you're running?
    ... or do you store that?

    addison: any takers for xinclude?

    (may not review...?)


      [25] https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Project_radar

    addison: no changes in document this week

Indic Layout Requirements FPWD Transition Request


      [26] http://www.w3.org/International/docs/indic-layout/

    richard: ran spell check
    ... somnath made changes
    ... fixed spelling
    ... somnath answered a lot of Norbert's questions
    ... one missing item is that Norbert suggested
    ... the intro should say somewhere "yes, only Hindi *now*, but
    other languages to be done later..."
    ... suggest we add text like that now
    ... will suggest to somnath
    ... try to publish it tuesday

    <scribe> chair: proposal is to publish Indic Layout
    Requirements as First Public Working Draft

    UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: indicate your support or non-support

    richard: note that first public is not expected to be in any
    specific level of maturity
    ... doesn't have to be in fantastic shape


    <xiaoqian> +1

    <fsasaki> +1

    <David> +1

    <r12a> +1

    <Steve_Atkin> +1

    <Leandro> +1

    <matial> +1 but don't know much about the subject

    <matial> :-)

    <somnath> somnath : ok thnks.

    <JcK> +1

    <scribe> chair: so resolved

    <r12a> ACTION: Richard to suggest wording for Somnath to add to
    indic layout intro to explain that we'll do other languages
    later [recorded in

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-384 - Suggest wording for somnath to
    add to indic layout intro to explain that we'll do other
    languages later [on Richard Ishida - due 2014-12-18].

Review the Chinese Layout Task Force charter


      [28] http://www.w3.org/International/groups/chinese-layout/charter

    richard: brief report
    ... took discussion items to beihang folks
    ... they were happy, updated charter
    ... yellow stuff are changes I added since then
    ... one outstanding query with them
    ... starting to think we may need separate public lists for
    tibetan and mongolian
    ... because cjk list has affinity between languages because
    they use similar writing system
    ... the others don't

    xiaoqian: have one list for all languages or separate lists by

    richard: provide maybe
    public-i18n-mongolian/public-i18n-tibetan (two lists)
    ... public-i18n-zhreq list proposed to be in Chinese language
    ... one issue is that people in Bhutan and India that want to
    participate in Tibetan work
    ... may not speak Chinese
    ... and maybe people in Mongolia?

    xiaoqian: suggest to use that list's language?

    richard: some people working on the script don't actually speak
    the language
    ... maybe either use English or Mongolian/Tibetan??
    ... public list would be in English

    xioaqian: most mongolian experts speak no english at all

    <scribe> chair: do we support adoption of the Chinese Layout
    Task Force charter?

    <xiaoqian> +1


    <David> +1

    <Steve_Atkin> +1

    <r12a> +1

    <Bobby> +1

    <Leandro> +1

    <matial> +1

    <JcK> Yes, although Id be a tad more complicated if more of the
    "how work will get done" details were nailed down.

    richard: if you have suggestions about mailing lists, please
    make them
    ... this likely to be a problem we have to deal with more in
    the future

    <JcK> And +1 to Richard's comment about future versions of the

    <scribe> chair: so resolved!

Review of XSLT 3.0 is due


      [29] http://www.w3.org/TR/xslt-30/


      [30] https://www.w3.org/International/track/products/63


    <trackbot> action-375 -- Steven Atkin to Defining Decimal
    Formats Permits Only Single Characters -- due 2014-12-02 --


      [31] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/375

    When decimal formats are defined only single characters are
    permitted for decimal format elements. The zero-digit element
    only allows a single numeric character. This means that a
    sequence such as U+0030 U+20E3 would not be permitted. See
    section 5.5


    <trackbot> action-376 -- Steven Atkin to Provide Guidance on
    Collation Tailorings -- due 2014-12-02 -- OPEN


      [32] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/376

    Section 13.1.3 requires that all implementers must recognize
    collation URIs as described in the Unicode Collation Algorithm,
    however there is no requirement to actually support any
    tailorings. I think we may want to consider requiring some
    level of support that all implementers will provide.

    steve: how useful is it without support requirement?


    <trackbot> issue-392 -- Decimal Format incomplete? -- open

    <trackbot> [33]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/392

      [33] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/392

    In Section 5.5, there is a definition of "decimal-format". The
    structure here is similar to that found in CLDR/LDML [1], which
    is a very good thing. However, there are additional number
    related items in that section of LDML, particularly related to
    decimal, percent, scientific, and currency formatting.

       [1] http://www.w3.org/


    <trackbot> issue-393 -- zero-digit replacement? -- open

    <trackbot> [34]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/393

      [34] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/393

    XSLT decimal-format contains a "zero-digit" item (to start
    blocks of digits). CLDR now deprecates this (which doesn't mean
    you should remove it because: compatibility). CLDR has replaced
    this with number system, which XSLT might consider adding.


    <trackbot> issue-394 -- decimal-format reference CLDR? -- open

    <trackbot> [35]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/394

      [35] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/394

    decimal-format seems to mirror much of what CLDR provides in
    terms of base data for formatting numbers in XSL-FO. Would it
    be useful to provide an informative reference to CLDR as a
    source for filling in this structure?

    Thinking out loud, would it be useful to allow direct reference
    to a language/locale in this structure as a shorthand for using
    implementation-specific locale data (often based on CLDR).

    JcK: better to incorporate so that they aren't "parallel
    documents" if that's what they're trying to do
    ... or say why they aren't tracking CLDR

    addison: think they relationship should be somewhat explicit


    <trackbot> issue-396 -- character maps needs a string? -- open

    <trackbot> [36]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/396

      [36] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/396

    The 'character-maps' feature allows mapping a Unicode 'char'
    (which is defined in a way that means a Unicode codepoint) to a
    replacement string. This is good for most purposes, but it's
    not clear to me if grapheme cluster sequences might be useful
    here as well.

    <Leandro> Need to leave a bit early today - 'til next week


      [37] http://www.w3.org/TR/xslt-30/#character-maps


    <trackbot> issue-395 -- URI developments ⓣ -- open

    <trackbot> [38]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/395

      [38] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/395

    [Definition: Within this specification, the term URI Reference,
    unless otherwise stated, refers to a string in the lexical
    space of the xs:anyURI datatype as defined in [XML Schema Part
    2].] Note that this is a wider definition than that in
    [RFC3986]: in particular, it is designed to accommodate
    Internationalized Resource Identifiers (IRIs) as described in
    [RFC3987], and thus allows the use of non-ASCII characters
    without escaping.


    This is a Good Thing, but continuing developments in the
    URI/IRI/URL space need to be tracked. I don't see any specific
    changes needed now: I'm creating this as a tracking issue.

    richard: have a request

    <scribe> ACTION: addison: write apologetic email about lateness
    and forward XSLT3.0 comments [recorded in

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-385 - Write apologetic email about
    lateness and forward xslt3.0 comments [on Addison Phillips -
    due 2014-12-18].

    David: regrets next week


    richard: send in comments about LTLI draft via email

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: addison: write apologetic email about lateness
    and forward XSLT3.0 comments [recorded in
    [NEW] ACTION: leandro: follow up with cldr ticket to add
    counter style data [recorded in
    [NEW] ACTION: Richard to suggest wording for Somnath to add to
    indic layout intro to explain that we'll do other languages
    later [recorded in

    [End of minutes]

Received on Thursday, 11 December 2014 16:41:48 UTC