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[minutes] Internationalization telecon 2013-12-19

From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 17:51:29 +0000
Message-ID: <52D57921.1090600@w3.org>
To: www International <www-international@w3.org>
http://www.w3.org/2013/12/19-i18n-minutes.html



Text version follows:



  Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

19 Dec 2013

    [2]Agenda

       [2] 
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013Dec/0016.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2013/12/19-i18n-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Addison, Richard, Felix, Mati, David

    Regrets
           JcK

    Chair
           Addison Phillips

    Scribe
           Addison Phillips

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Agenda
          2. [6]Action Items
          3. [7]Info Share
          4. [8]CSS Syntax
          5. [9]CSS Text
          6. [10]AOB?
      * [11]Summary of Action Items
      __________________________________________________________

Agenda

Action Items

Info Share

    Next Multilingual Web Conference Announced

    [12]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2013O
    ctDec/0132.html

      [12] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2013OctDec/0132.html

    richard: can register now, confirmations next year
    ... don't forget to look at the ebooks list
    ... which is here:

    <r12a> public-digipub@w3.org

    richard: there are interesting discussions over there and we
    might contribute
    ... recent discussion about drop caps
    ... and a "Latin" layout requirements doc
    ... moves afoot to create a chinese layout requirements
    document
    ... early days, but may become a group
    ... we might take drafty indic document and help that along?
    ... needs an assist to move forwards
    ... great if we could get more Arabic speakers involved in
    writing layout requirements???

    <fsasaki> [13]http://www.w3.org/community/ld4lt/

      [13] http://www.w3.org/community/ld4lt/

    felix: Linked Data for Language Technology

    <scribe> ... new group working on this

    UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: combine different kinds of multilingual
    resources
    ... some interest at IUC in stuff like named entity recognition
    (NER)

    felix: site redesign for ML site

    <fsasaki> [14]http://www.multilingualweb.eu/projects/

      [14] http://www.multilingualweb.eu/projects/

    felix: vairous projects listed that come out of Multilingual
    Web
    ... not all are active, particularly community groups
    ... but nice to see different things that are active

    richard: MLW pages now under International on w3 site
    ... becoming more closely integrated

    felix: important for sustainability

CSS Syntax

    richard: looked at encoding recognization and such
    ... rely on encoding spec
    ... don't reference currently
    ... not sure what they'll do when they reference

    [15]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/306

      [15] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/306

    [16]http://www.w3.org/TR/css-syntax-3/#charset-rule The note in
    this section contains this text: -- where XXX is a sequence of
    bytes other than 22 (ASCII for ") -- This is unclear and looks
    odd. Please use hex notation and also use the name of the
    character in question. E.g.: ... where XXX is a sequence of
    bytes other than 0x22 (the ASCII character " U+0022 QUOTATION
    MARK)... Related Actions Items:

      [16] http://www.w3.org/TR/css-syntax-3/#charset-rule

    [17]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/307

      [17] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/307

    <r12a> [18]http://encoding.spec.whatwg.org/#decode

      [18] http://encoding.spec.whatwg.org/#decode

    richard: assumes that you have an alternative if you don't have
    a BOM

    addison: maybe that section needs more work? that handles http
    charset, but not sniffing the file?
    ... doesn't XML do a reasonable job here?

    [19]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/326

      [19] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/326

    [20]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/327

      [20] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/327

    addison: you version is clearer

    [21]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/328

      [21] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/328

    Editorial: To make it clearer which are the steps referred to
    by "follow these steps", put the para starting with "First" and
    that starting with "Then" into an ordered list.

    <r12a> [22]http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-syntax/#charset-rule

      [22] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-syntax/#charset-rule

    richard: there is a section on the charset rule
    ... statement at the end

    <r12a> "The @charset rule has no effect on a stylesheet. "

    richard: that's kind of weird

    addison: it's not really clear what that means

CSS Text

    <r12a> [23]http://www.w3.org/International/track/products/15

      [23] http://www.w3.org/International/track/products/15

    [24]https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/308

      [24] https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/308

    [25]https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/313

      [25] https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/313

    richard: read my version carefully: it took a long tinme to
    write

    "extending the rules in a language-specific way for how the
    grapheme cluster is formed"

    scribe: but not changing what is defined to be a grapheme
    cluster

    richard: syllable in deva is not a grapheme cluster by any
    definition at all
    ... may be 2 or more graphemes in a syllable
    ... make grapheme cluster mean the same thing everywhere and
    mean Unicode clusters
    ... use technical terms in the defined way

    "apply additional rules for the selected text (beyond just
    grapheme clusters) when applying a given CSS Text operation"

    [26]https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/314

      [26] https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/314

    This is not true where group ruby is concerned. The
    intercharacter breaks that would be allowed in the base text
    are not allowed within a run of ideographic characters that are
    spanned by a single ruby text element.

    </q>

    [27]https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/315

      [27] https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/315

    [28]https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/316

      [28] https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/316

    I think that, for the sake of interoperability, the CSS spec
    should require the use of UAX14 as a default for line breaking
    behaviour. It should also state that the rules in UAX14 may
    need tailoring for certain scripts, and that the properties
    specified in this section assist the user in controlling line
    breaking behaviour.

    Text in the spec such as the definition of word-break: normal,
    which says "Words break according to their usual rules", would
    then provide a little more guidance to the implementor.

    [29]https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/317

      [29] https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/317

    richard: only a small part of (CJK) line-breaking
    ... also, it doesn't really tell you how to do line breaking
    (or justification)

    [30]https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/319

      [30] https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/319

    [31]https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/320

      [31] https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/320

    [32]https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/321

      [32] https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/321

    [33]https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/322

      [33] https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/322

    "Implementers are expected, to the extent possible, to make
    available appropriate justification behaviours based on the
    language of the paragraph e.g. character-dependent expansion
    rules for Japanese, using cursive elongation for Arabic, using
    ‘inter-word’ for English, keeping typographic syllables
    together in complex scripts, etc. Only where such linguistic
    tailorings have not yet been implemented should the browser use
    a justification method that i[CUT]

    [34]https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/323

      [34] https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/323

    [35]https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/324

      [35] https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/324

    addison: always used in combination with inter-word

    richard: took to mean 'auto' if you want indic stuff,
    inter-word and distribute are "forced"
    ... send comment as is? but then develop over email

    addison: "this justification thing needs more work: work on
    what it selects/applies to and then how it is used"?

    [36]https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/325

      [36] https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/325

    <matial> I need to leave. Bye.

AOB?

    richard: raised comment on WebVTT

    addison: that's good
    ... trackered?

    Next Call: 9 January

Summary of Action Items

    [End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 14 January 2014 17:51:58 UTC

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