- From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 19:54:52 +0000
- To: www International <www-international@w3.org>
http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-i18n-minutes.html
Text version follows:
Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
21 Mar 2013
[2]Agenda
[2]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013Mar/0022.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-i18n-irc
Attendees
Present
aharon, matial, aphillip, JcK, Richard, Norbert,
fsasaki, fantasai
Regrets
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
aharon, fsasaki
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Agenda
2. [6]Action Items
3. [7]Info Share
4. [8]WTITMA
5. [9]caseless matching in css3 fonts
6. [10]css3-text-decoration skipping spaces
7. [11]language ranges with multiple subtags
8. [12]AOB?
* [13]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
Agenda
Action Items
aphillip: action items
... did not get a lot of action items done
<r12a> [14]http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
[14] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
aharon: did not make any progress on bidi html5 improvements
note
Norbert: action 149 in about 3 weeks
ahphillip: action 150 becoming pressing, but have not had
chance
aphillip: no progress on action 170
richard: document is pretty much ready for review
aphillip: no progress on 174
... no progress on 183
... will talk about 194
<aphillip> close ACTION-195
<trackbot> Closed ACTION-195 Send Richard notes about IE
behaviour wrt direction.
aharon: sent notes on IE for action 195 today
richard: no chance to get to action 196
Info Share
richard: mlw workshop went well, well done Felix and colleagues
<fsasaki> kudos to r12a for *his* work! not only in the
previous workshops but also in rome
richard: breakout to discuss personal names, mark davis was
there...
how to handle personal names, ontologies
aphillip: unicode conference call for papers is now
WTITMA
aphillip: is this (UTC 1600) a good time?
richard: until when?
aphillip: indefinitely
matial: not good for me after summer time comes in
<aphillip> mati: -1, prefer same wall time rather than same utc
time
<aphillip> richard: 1500 utc
richard: prefer same wall time
<fsasaki> +1
<fsasaki> actually, both fine by me
aphillip: resolved to move to 1500
<aphillip> ACTION: addison: move meeting to 1500 utc following
change to summer time [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-197 - Move meeting to 1500 utc
following change to summer time [on Addison Phillips - due
2013-03-28].
<aphillip> ... for first meeting in april
aphillip: move to 1500 not next week but the following week
caseless matching in css3 fonts
<aphillip>
[16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2013J
anMar/0347.html
[16]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2013JanMar/0347.html
aphillip: c+s may not match
<aphillip> example: a font with a german name such as heiß
wouldn't match HEISS because C+S case fold is only "heis"
aphillip: the concern is that you want your case-folded names
to match the other token, and both have to be case-folded the
same way...
you have to know that you have to allocate a little more
storage for the case-folded version...
<fantasai> fantasai: Is the concern that the casefld will be
incorrectly implemented, or that it won't match when correctly
implemented?
a little spurios, since other factors can change the length
anyway
JcK; worrying about this particular case "borders on the
irrational"
<fantasai> Norbert quoting Jonathan: should require
normalization if doing casefold
<fantasai> ?: Trying to do casefold without normalization is
all sorts of trouble.
<fantasai> JcK: Maybe right rule is to normalize and casefold
for comparison, even if the string is not normalized itself
JcK: maybe the right rule is to normalize around case folds
<fantasai> ?: A little more complicated, but certainly more
reliable
<fantasai> aphillip: Would be remarkable use of normalization
simply because not used anywhere else
<fantasai> JcK: Should either not casefold at all or normalize
and casefold
<fantasai> aphillip: Don't think we want to change
recommendation of which casefold to use
<fantasai> aphillip: Second quesiton is whether to normalize
<fantasai> aphillip: efficiency more problematic for
normalization than casefolding
<fantasai> aphillip: We've brought it up with Selectors, other
things, een told enough times we're not going to get
normalization
fantasai: in all other cases, you had to have normalization
span the entire platform
... not sure that this can even been done
... in this particular case, it's not about interaction of css
with some other Web technology but about interaction of CSS
with font files via intermediary agent of OS font APIs
you could require normaliza and case fold, and it would have no
effect on the rest of platform
<fsasaki> scribe: fsasaki
addison: conclusions?
... need to understand the rules for common font format
... there seem to be limitations
fantasai: normalization and case folding makes most sense to me
... in this particular case
addison: nothing against including normalization
... objections against case folding should go away too
jck: thinking of the argument for normalization we had for IDN
... These strings are very short, I don't see an efficiency
problem
addison: so probably both normalization and case folding are
the right thing to do
... there should be a special note saying here is the limited
case where we are having normalization
<JcK> In particular, these are comparisons for very short
strings, not operations on very large blocks of text. For such
short strings, The efficiency loss is trivial and the
comparisons will work much more predictably
<aphillip> ACTION: addison: write back to CSS-fonts about
casefolding and normalization, allowing both with health
warning (see minutes) [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-198 - Write back to CSS-fonts about
casefolding and normalization, allowing both with health
warning (see minutes) [on Addison Phillips - due 2013-03-28].
css3-text-decoration skipping spaces
<aphillip>
[18]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013M
ar/0023.html
[18]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013Mar/0023.html
addison: this is about space skip, text decoration for
underlining
... above link is summary of what I got back from them
... one of discussion topics: some langauges don't use spaces
... so if you want to (scribe missed)
fantasai: reading comment esp. from markus
... propose to do something simple
... do something for languages that have spaces
... if the language has no spaces, you don't want to create a
gap
... one thing I didn't understand: how do I specifiy other than
linking to CLDR query page?
addison: defined elsewhere, like the regex one
fantasai: does the regex include entire Z category?
norbert: javascript has its own ws category
<aphillip> ACTION: addison: seek clarification on
[:Whitespace:] [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-i18n-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-199 - Seek clarification on
[:Whitespace:] [on Addison Phillips - due 2013-03-28].
fantasai: proposal is to skip all characters in unicode
category z
addison: minus the vertical white space
fantasai: the word separater characters are:
<fantasai> space (U+0020), the no-break space (U+00A0), the
Ethiopic word space (U+1361), the Aegean word separators
(U+10100,U+10101), the Ugaritic word divider (U+1039F), and the
Phoenician Word Separator (U+1091F)
<fantasai> plus whatever is regex White_Space
fantasai: that is the current proposal
... we can skip e.g. over blank
... do we also skip over visible spaces like U+1361?
richard: skipping over blank might be an issue too
addison: there are joining items in punctuation you might not
want to skip either
norbert: e.g. within numbers
<aphillip> foo<a0>:
<aphillip> 1<a0>000
discussion on underlining in Ethopian word spaces
<Norbert> [20]http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr44/#White_Space
[20] http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr44/#White_Space
<r12a> fantasai, do you know that you just dropped off the
call?
<fantasai> "conference is restricted" :/
<matial> me too
<fantasai> So any conclusions on text-decoration-skip?
<fantasai> The definition I have is the one above
<aphillip> I will circle back to unicore
<fantasai> the open question is what to do with the visible
word separators
<aphillip> and we will take up again next week
<fantasai> ok
<aphillip> yep
language ranges with multiple subtags
<aphillip> norbert: looking for end-to-end language negotiation
example that uses script codes
<aphillip> ... or other subtags defined by bcp 47
<aphillip> richard we have some
<r12a>
[21]http://www.w3.org/International/getting-started/characters
[21] http://www.w3.org/International/getting-started/characters
<r12a> look at the chinese version
<aphillip> norbert: please send examples to list
<aphillip> richard: see above
AOB?
<r12a>
[22]http://www.w3.org/International/getting-started/characters.
zh-hant.php?changelang=zh-hant
[22]
http://www.w3.org/International/getting-started/characters.zh-hant.php?changelang=zh-hant
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: addison: move meeting to 1500 utc following
change to summer time [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: addison: seek clarification on [:Whitespace:]
[recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-i18n-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: addison: write back to CSS-fonts about
casefolding and normalization, allowing both with health
warning (see minutes) [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
[End of minutes]
--
Richard Ishida, W3C
http://rishida.net/
Received on Thursday, 21 March 2013 19:55:16 UTC