RE: Article for wide review: Choosing a language tag

Hi.  Sorry for my wordy comments; and yes, thanks for your search utility; it is fast.

> From: ishida@w3.org
> To: cewcathar@hotmail.com; www-international@w3.org
> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:00:00 +0000
> Subject: RE: Article for wide review: Choosing a language tag
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: CE Whitehead [mailto:cewcathar@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: 12 October 2009 19:53
> > To: ishida@w3.org; www-international@w3.org
> > Subject: RE: Article for wide review: Choosing a language tag
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Hi, I've read all but the last two sections (on private use and grandfathered
> > subtags) of "Choosing a Language Tag"
> > 
> > ( http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-choosing-language-tags);
> > 
> > most of my comments are on the English, although a few are on content:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > * * *
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Answer to Question at top, "Which language tag is . . . ?", par 4
> > (ORDER/ORGANIZATION)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > "Particular thanks are due to Addison Phillips and Mark Davis, authors of BCP
> > 47, for help in producing this article."
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > { COMMENT: this is not really part of the answer to the above question
> > although Mark Davis and Addison Phillips have worked hard on BP 47;
> > If Mark and Addison have worked hard on the whole article, this should be
> > moved to near the top of the article, immediately following the opening
> > paragraph, and before the first question is presented!}
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Answer to Question at top, "Which language tag is . . . ?" par 7, last sentence
> > (ENGLISH)
> > 
> > 
> 
> Moved it rather than tried to explain why I put it there.

 

Sorry if I aggravated you here.


> 
> 
> > 
> > "Your search will have matched against the Description field. Check that the
> > type of this record is language. What you are looking for is the value in the
> > Subtag field, ie. fr."
> > 
> > 
> > { COMMENT: I would have liked to have seen at least single quotation marks
> > around 'fr'.
> 
> I prefer to keep with the current approach, used throughout the article.
> 
> > Also, is it clear from the last sentence that 'fr' is going to be used in the
> > language tag??
> 
> I think it is, if you read the earlier text.

I'll look at this again.
> 
> > >= "The language tag is formed using the value in the subtag field, which is
> > 'fr'."
> > }
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Answer to Question at top, "Which language tag is . . . ?", par 8, sentence 1
> > (ENGLISH)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > "The rest of this article will provide advice for choosing primary language
> > and possibly other types of subtag. Note that not all the decisions about how
> > to create a language tag are straightforward. There are circumstances where
> > usage will dictate which of various possibilities you should follow."
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > { COMMENT: Because there may be more than one subtag following the
> > primary language subtag in a language tag, I think "subtags" should be
> > plural;
> > also I think that "primary language subtag" might benefit from a definite
> > article since there is one primary language subtag"--thus it is in some sense
> > specific
> > 
> > 
> > >=
> > "The rest of this article will provide advice for choosing the primary language
> > and possibly other types of subtags."
> > }
> 
> Changed to
> The rest of this article will provide advice for choosing primary language subtags and, where needed, other types of subtag.
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Answer to Question at top, "Which language tag is . . . ?", par 9 CONTENT
> > 
> > 
> > "There are tools available which provide additional help while searching the
> > registry, such as Richard Ishida's Language Subtag Lookup tool."
> > 
> > 
> > {COMMENT: this could be more specific (we just discussed these at ietf-
> > languages):
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > for example,
> > 
> > >= "There are tools which search through a copy of the registry for a
> > particular description, etc. . . . "
> > 
> > You might even go on to say, "a reasonably up-to-date copy of the
> > registry. . ."
> 
> My tool provides more help than just searching for a particular description
> 

 


Yes, I love your tool because it is so fast to search; but it is not updated every night is it?

That's all I was saying.  I realize that the size of the registry makes updating your copy  of it the more cumbersome

(& I should not talk as I have a ton of updates to install on my computer--I'm going to update tonight though).

 

Best,

 

C. E. Whitehead

cewcathar@hotmail.com

> > 
> > }
> > 
> > 
> > * * *
> > Decision 1, par 2, first bullet CONTENT
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > "'Often it is not clear which language identifier to use. For example, what
> > most people call Punjabi in Pakistan actually has the code 'lah', and formal
> > name 'Lahnda'.'"
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > {COMMENTS:
> > ??? As you note in your utlity
> > http://rishida.net/utils/subtags/index.php?find=&lookup=lah&submit=Look+
> > up&list=0&check=
> > 
> > 'lah' (lahnda) is a macrolanguage and punjabi as used in Pakistan can get a
> > more specific subtag!
> > ?? or am I confused; lahnda is used widely and not just in Pakistan; punjabi or
> > western panjabi is only used in Pakistan; several other varieties of lahnda are
> > used in Pakistan however but these are not called Punjabi? So is this the best
> > example??
> > 
> > Another example might be Persian-Farsi-Dari: if you search for 'Persian,' you
> > want a specific language subtag, 'pes' probably (identified/described as
> > 'farsi'; I once thought that 'Western Persian' was going to be added as a
> > second description field for 'pes' but I guess this is a can of worms right now
> > and has already been discussed to the fullest extent possible at ietf-
> > languages.; see:
> > 
> > http://www.alvestrand.no/pipermail/ietf-languages/2008-
> > December/008715.html
> > 
> > }
> > 
> > 
> > * * *
> > 
> > 
> > Decision 1, par 2, first bullet, par 2 ENGLISH
> > 
> > 
> > "You could look up language information in the SIL Ethnologue and cross-
> > referencing with Wikipedia.
> > 
> > 
> > { COMMENTS:
> > ??? "cross-referencing" has no direct object here but should normally take
> > one; also it's not even clear whether it's the audience of this sentence
> > or SIL Ethnologue who will be doing the cross-referencing (that is the subject
> > antecedent is not clear)
> > perhaps because the two verbs ("look up" and "cross-referencing") are not
> > syntactically parallel--which they should be if 'you' is the subject for both!
> > >= "You could look up language information in the SIL Ethnologue and
> > cross-reference it with information in Wikipedia."
> > }
> > 
> 
> Fixed.
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Decision 1, par 2, second bullet, par 2 PUNCTUATION
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > "For example, ku (Kurdish) is a macrolanguage that encompasses ckb
> > (Central Kurdish), kmr (Northern Kurdish), and sdh (Southern Kurdish),"
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > { COMMENT:
> > 
> > There should be a full-stop, and not a comma, at the end of the above
> > paragraph.
> > }
> > 
> 
> Fixed.
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Decision 1, par 2, third bullet, par 2 ENGLISH
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > "You should look for a more specific subtag for the language you are
> > wanting to use. Unfortunately, the registry doesn't provide any pointers for
> > this."
> > 
> > 
> > { COMMENT: Awkward; why "you are wanting"? Why not just ""you wish"?
> > Also "use" sound vague to me; I prefer "specify" here. Also, what "registry"?
> > Do you mean "the language subtag registry"/BP 47 or do you mean this Q&A
> > article?
> 
> ?? This article isn't a registry?
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >= "You should look for a more specific subtag for the language you wish to
> > specify. Unfortunately, this registry {???this article??? the language subtag
> > registry???} does not provide any pointers for doing so."
> > }
> 
> Changed to
> You should look for a more specific subtag for the language you are interested in

 


> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > * * *
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Decision 5, par 4, first bullet, par 2 ENGLISH
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > "If you have a good reason, you could use a variant subtag with different
> > subtags, eg. cmn-Latn-pinyin would be a legal to say Mandarin Chinese
> > written with pinyin."
> > 
> > 
> > { COMMENT: ?? "would be a legal to say ???" Where is the noun that must
> > follow an article such as 'a'?? I only see an adjective, 'legal;'
> > I suppose you mean 'legal way'??
> > 
> > >= "would be a legal {or proper??} way to indicate Mandarin Chinese content
> > written using the pinyin romanization system."
> > 
> > 
> > Hope I did not get too wordy.
> > }
> 
> Fixed.
> 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Decision 5, par 4, first bullet, par 3 ENGLISH
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > "Although zh, bo and Latn are specified, this is a minimum requirement. It is
> > also possible to include other subtags, such as a region subtag, in the
> > language tag (where appropriate), eg. zh-Latn-TW-pinyin."
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > { COMMENT for clarity, I'd say (even though you may feel you have said this
> > above),
> > "Although either zh or bo followed by Latn are specified . .>"
> > }
> 
> I'd rather leave as is.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> RI
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Best,
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > C. E. Whitehead
> > 
> > cewcathar@hotmail.com
> > 
> > > From: ishida@w3.org
> > > To: www-international@w3.org
> > > Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 19:25:29 +0100
> > > Subject: Article for wide review: Choosing a language tag
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-choosing-language-tags
> > >
> > >
> > > Comments are being sought on this article prior to final release. Please
> > send any comments to www-international@w3.org (subscribe). We expect to
> > publish a final version in one to two weeks.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ============
> > > Richard Ishida
> > > Internationalization Lead
> > > W3C (World Wide Web Consortium)
> > >
> > > http://www.w3.org/International/
> > > http://rishida.net/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> 
>