- From: Tim Moore <fctmoore@hkusua.hku.hk>
- Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:31:22 +0800
- To: www-i18n-comments@w3.org
- CC: fctmoore@hkusua.hku.hk
Dear Colleagues, I read with interest the Working Draft on Character Model. I have one misgiving to do with "bidirectional text". Clearly, bidirectionality occurs and must be appropriately handled (most obviously when scripts with different directionality are mixed). My misgiving is more specific (and rather pedantic). It concerns the commonly made claim (repeated in Appendix A example A.6) that, in Arabic script, letters are written right-to-left, while digits are written left-to-right. This is a dubious claim, since there is not a clear basis to determine the "directionality" of digits in a decimal number. For instance, consider "62". Conventionally, in European languages, this is of course spoken from left to right (and the most significant digit comes first). But even in European languages, correspondances are not always so straightforward, so that "72" in French becomes "sixty twelve" [soixante douze] when spoken, and in English, "70" can be read "three score and ten". It is true that in Arabic the most significant digit is also placed to the left, but this is a mere convention, so that it does not follow that the number is "written from left-to-right". Indeed an Arabic speaker saying the number will in fact utter the equivalent of "two and sixty" (ithnein wa sittin). I take it that the directionality of text can be adequately defined, but it seems to me that this does not apply straightforwardly to numerical notations (consider what might be viewed as mixed directionality, from a logical point of view, in a Roman numeral such as MCMXLIV, where M maps to one thousand, CM maps to nine hundred [one hundred short of a thousand], XL maps to forty [ten short of fifty] and IV maps to 4 [one short of five]. Compare also the order of addresses: in some conventions you start with the most particular, and end with the most general, as in English; in Chinese, by contrast, you start with the most general, and end with the name of the addressee. Consider also the case of Polish notation and reverse Polish notation for logical or arithmetic operations, where the first starts, on the left, with the least significant symbol and the second starts with the most significant. A final case: what is the "logical order" of the numbers in a digitally represented date? Is it day-month-year [European, the first being the the most specific], year-month-day [Chinese, the first being the most general], or month-day-year [USA, mixed]?) It appears to me that in the specific case the notion of the "logical location" of a digit is not well-defined, and could be justified only by just stipulating that any decimal notion must place the most significant digit to the left of the string of digits etc., and that the most significant digit must be treated as logically "first". Nothing wrong with that, I guess, provided that it is explicitly recognized as a mere stipulation, and is not imposed by any general considerations of logic or language and may or may not provide a nice fit with particular languages (as written or spoken). (Maybe the real key is the Arabic input methods for numerals which have been selected for computer keyboards. The few I have seen do indeed employ bidirectionality and require inputting, say, 231, in the order 2 then 3 then 1, which may have seemed or been more convenient for native speakers, but could not be done on a typewriter.) Best wishes for the Year of the Snake, Tim Moore Emeritus Professor of Philosophy The University of Hong Kong
Received on Monday, 29 January 2001 03:27:44 UTC