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Re: Cleaning House

From: Tina Holmboe <tina@greytower.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 03:25:33 +0100 (CET)
To: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
cc: Jim Jewett <jimjjewett@gmail.com>, David Woolley <forums@david-woolley.me.uk>, www-html@w3.org
Message-ID: <tkrat.bddd9a27f0061ed1@greytower.net>

On 18 Nov, Ian Hickson wrote:

>> It'd be better if you wrote distinct, clean, specifications which 
>> separated one thing from another.
> Oh, I don't know. I've always thought indistinct, dirty, mashed-together 
> specifications would be better.
> Seriously though. This kind of feedback simply isn't constructive. It's 

  I can only express regret that you take this stance. Several times in
  the past opinions have been raised to the effect that the
  specification, as it is now, is too large, too unwieldy.

  Part of my job is to talk to developers; people who write both web
  applications and web pages, but also systems of various kinds who
  produce markup - markup, CSS, JS ...

  The sentiment that the current HTML 5 specification is too large to
  bother reading is quite common. No, I intend to offer no quotes or

  It has, previously, been suggested that the specification be made
  "cleaner, stronger and better" by separating it into several distinct
  specifications - just as I did above.

  And the reaction has been the same every time. It "isn't constructive"
  and it is "insulting me and my work".

> There is a simple reason -- it's less work for me to write one spec than 
> to write two specs. The Workers part of HTML5 is an example of this -- I 

  I refer you to your own words:

   "Why does the size of the spec matter? Surely the benefit to authors far, 
    far outweigh the benefits to the spec community?"

  We - that is myself and several others - have, time and time again,
  explained to you why the size matters. If you agree that it is better
  to write to benefit authors instead of the spec community, then I find
  it amazing that you still insist on maintaining ONE monolithic

> If anyone would like to actually help with doing this, instead of 
> insulting me and my work, then please do let me know.

  If you consider constructive feedback insulting to you, as a person,
  and to the work you do, then I cannot help.

  It is only my own naivety which made me yet again try. You can trust
  that it will be the last attempt.

  The last time I tried IRC logs with astonishingly rude remarks in my
  direction got published. I am sure you will all have much to laugh at
  on my account.

> Are you volunteering? If not, I respectfully would like to ask you to stop 
> insulting me.

  There is no respect in the way you approach other people and their

  Do not bother replying. I shan't be on the mailing list to see it. I
  would express a hope that others WILL see this, and act accordingly,
  but I have no more faith in the process.

 - Tina Holmboe       siteSifter                  Greytower Technologies
            http://www.sitesifter.co.uk          http://www.greytower.net
      Website Quality and Accessibility Testing
Received on Tuesday, 18 November 2008 02:26:10 UTC

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