- From: T. V. Raman <tvraman@us.ibm.com>
- Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:22:00 -0700
- To: Leigh.Klotz@xerox.com
- Cc: mark.birbeck@x-port.net, tvraman@almaden.ibm.com, suzan.foster@nerocmediaware.nl, www-forms@w3.org
A good comprehensive list. Finally, and perhaps the most complex, a sort whose sort predicate is a function of user input into another control. Having this would create some very fluid end-user experiences. >>>>> "Klotz," == Klotz, Leigh <Leigh.Klotz@xerox.com> writes: Klotz,> Mark's point about the controls presenting views on Klotz,> data is clear enough and I don't think anyone was Klotz,> disagreeing with that premise. I might agree with Klotz,> Raman's comment that simple attributes might not be Klotz,> enough, but I am not sure yet. I do note, though, Klotz,> that presenting sorting without author control brings Klotz,> up the question of what's being sorted; i.e., what is Klotz,> the sort key accessor function, and what is the Klotz,> comparator? There are many options, and I think that Klotz,> the ability to express the (needed) options from the Klotz,> list below will give a test of whether the simple Klotz,> attribute (or simple child element) case is good Klotz,> enough. Klotz,> Klotz,> 1. Sort key is label. - If I show a list of airport Klotz,> codes with city names as the labels, presumably I Klotz,> want to sort by city name, not by airport code. Klotz,> Otherwise we'll get complaints from all the Canadians Klotz,> about YOW and YYV appearning at the bottom of the Klotz,> list ;-) 2. Sort key is value - What if value is Klotz,> complex, in the case of select? 3. Sort key is some Klotz,> computed expression. - Useful in the above case of Klotz,> select1 and complex value. 4. Sort key is one of the Klotz,> above, but comparison function is elsehow specified. Klotz,> One possibility is to use the XML Schema type - Klotz,> Lexicographic ascending/descending (xsd:string) - Klotz,> Numeric or date-based ascending or descending -- Klotz,> (xsd:number, xsd:dateTime) - Other more complicated Klotz,> user-defined Schema types But then what if there's no Klotz,> Schema or the processor doesn't support it (XForms Klotz,> Basic)? Klotz,> Klotz,> Leigh. Klotz,> Klotz,> Klotz,> -----Original Message----- From: Mark Birbeck Klotz,> [mailto:mark.birbeck@x-port.net] Sent: Monday, April Klotz,> 18, 2005 11:26 AM To: tvraman@almaden.ibm.com Cc: Klotz,> Klotz, Leigh; suzan.foster@nerocmediaware.nl; Klotz,> www-forms@w3.org Subject: RE: How to change the order Klotz,> of repeat-items? Klotz,> Klotz,> Raman, Klotz,> >> The idea of putting sort attrs on the ui layer is >> enticing, but I am afraid it will run into a wall fairly >> quickly. Klotz,> Klotz,> I disagree ;) Klotz,> Klotz,> As you know -- since you are a strong advocate for it Klotz,> -- there are many situations where the UI does not Klotz,> *directly* reflect the model. For example, take Klotz,> xf:select1; its purpose is for the user to choose an Klotz,> item from a list, but it is possible for the list to Klotz,> not be 'in view', even though the list is obviously Klotz,> in the model. The list might be limited because the Klotz,> author has used: Klotz,> Klotz,> @appearance="minimal" Klotz,> Klotz,> or it might be limited because the user has collapsed Klotz,> a node in a tree, or whatever. Klotz,> Klotz,> Other examples would be the use of date pickers to Klotz,> both select and render dates, check-boxes that look Klotz,> nothing like the word 'true' or 'false', colour Klotz,> pickers that obviously don't look like #ab7f34, a Klotz,> number like "100" stored in the model but rendered as Klotz,> "$100.00", and so on. Klotz,> Klotz,> So, my view is that *some* (not all) of the use cases Klotz,> for sorting fall into this domain -- the user might Klotz,> be able to control them and the author might be able Klotz,> to hint at them, but either way, the model doesn't Klotz,> care. (To put it in terms of the MVC architecture, we Klotz,> are simply allowing the creation of an ordered 'view' Klotz,> of a set of nodes, without touching the underlying Klotz,> nodes.) Klotz,> Klotz,> Klotz,> I would say that the sortable columns of email or Klotz,> contacts falls into the category of a 'user sort' -- Klotz,> this can be done with no mark-up at all, since it's Klotz,> just a more complex version of the button next to a Klotz,> drop-box that shows you the list of options, and is Klotz,> not under the control of XForms, but under the Klotz,> control of the user agent. Klotz,> Klotz,> In the category of an 'author-hint sort' would be the Klotz,> rendering of the selections in a selection list; the Klotz,> names of the countries would be in one order in one Klotz,> language, and in another order in another language, Klotz,> for example. Klotz,> Klotz,> And in the category of a 'model sort' might be the Klotz,> list of items in a flowchart, since in this case the Klotz,> order in the model really does matter. Klotz,> Klotz,> The 'model sort' is more accurately a proper Klotz,> re-ordering of nodes, that should be permanent, and Klotz,> would therefore be achieved through an action or Klotz,> extension function. The second one is more like a Klotz,> 'filter' -- a different 'view' on the same underlying Klotz,> nodes, but with those nodes left completely intact. Klotz,> Klotz,> Regards, Klotz,> Klotz,> Mark Klotz,> Klotz,> Klotz,> Mark Birbeck CEO x-port.net Ltd. Klotz,> Klotz,> e: Mark.Birbeck@x-port.net t: +44 (0) 20 7689 9232 w: Klotz,> http://www.formsPlayer.com/ b: Klotz,> http://internet-apps.blogspot.com/ Klotz,> Klotz,> Download our XForms processor from Klotz,> http://www.formsPlayer.com/ Klotz,> Klotz,> Klotz,> -- Best Regards, --raman ------------------------------------------------------------ T. V. Raman: PhD (Cornell University) IBM Research: Human Language Technologies Architect: RDC --- Conversational And Multimodal WWW Standards Phone: 1 (408) 927 2608 T-Line 457-2608 Fax: 1 (408) 927 3012 Cell: 1 650 799 5724 Email: tvraman@us.ibm.com WWW: http://almaden.ibm.com/u/tvraman (google:raman+labrador) AIM: emacspeak GPG: http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/tvraman/raman-almaden.asc Snail: IBM Almaden Research Center, 650 Harry Road San Jose 95120
Received on Monday, 18 April 2005 21:21:54 UTC