- From: T. V. Raman <tvraman@us.ibm.com>
- Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:43:27 -0700
- To: mark.birbeck@x-port.net
- Cc: tvraman@almaden.ibm.com, Leigh.Klotz@xerox.com, suzan.foster@nerocmediaware.nl, www-forms@w3.org
Mark -- I wasn't clear in my earlier note. I wasn't pushing back on sort in the UI layer; I was pushing back on the idea of doing it with simple attrs on the UI construct because I think that appraoch (i.e. attrs) will not have enough expressive power. >>>>> "Mark" == Mark Birbeck <mark.birbeck@x-port.net> writes: Mark> Raman, >> The idea of putting sort attrs on the ui layer is >> enticing, but I am afraid it will run into a wall fairly >> quickly. Mark> Mark> I disagree ;) Mark> Mark> As you know -- since you are a strong advocate for it Mark> -- there are many situations where the UI does not Mark> *directly* reflect the model. For example, take Mark> xf:select1; its purpose is for the user to choose an Mark> item from a list, but it is possible for the list to Mark> not be 'in view', even though the list is obviously in Mark> the model. The list might be limited because the author Mark> has used: Mark> Mark> @appearance="minimal" Mark> Mark> or it might be limited because the user has collapsed a Mark> node in a tree, or whatever. Mark> Mark> Other examples would be the use of date pickers to both Mark> select and render dates, check-boxes that look nothing Mark> like the word 'true' or 'false', colour pickers that Mark> obviously don't look like #ab7f34, a number like "100" Mark> stored in the model but rendered as "$100.00", and so Mark> on. Mark> Mark> So, my view is that *some* (not all) of the use cases Mark> for sorting fall into this domain -- the user might be Mark> able to control them and the author might be able to Mark> hint at them, but either way, the model doesn't Mark> care. (To put it in terms of the MVC architecture, we Mark> are simply allowing the creation of an ordered 'view' Mark> of a set of nodes, without touching the underlying Mark> nodes.) Mark> Mark> Mark> I would say that the sortable columns of email or Mark> contacts falls into the category of a 'user sort' -- Mark> this can be done with no mark-up at all, since it's Mark> just a more complex version of the button next to a Mark> drop-box that shows you the list of options, and is not Mark> under the control of XForms, but under the control of Mark> the user agent. Mark> Mark> In the category of an 'author-hint sort' would be the Mark> rendering of the selections in a selection list; the Mark> names of the countries would be in one order in one Mark> language, and in another order in another language, for Mark> example. Mark> Mark> And in the category of a 'model sort' might be the list Mark> of items in a flowchart, since in this case the order Mark> in the model really does matter. Mark> Mark> The 'model sort' is more accurately a proper Mark> re-ordering of nodes, that should be permanent, and Mark> would therefore be achieved through an action or Mark> extension function. The second one is more like a Mark> 'filter' -- a different 'view' on the same underlying Mark> nodes, but with those nodes left completely intact. Mark> Mark> Regards, Mark> Mark> Mark Mark> Mark> Mark> Mark Birbeck CEO x-port.net Ltd. Mark> Mark> e: Mark.Birbeck@x-port.net t: +44 (0) 20 7689 9232 w: Mark> http://www.formsPlayer.com/ b: Mark> http://internet-apps.blogspot.com/ Mark> Mark> Download our XForms processor from Mark> http://www.formsPlayer.com/ Mark> Mark> -- Best Regards, --raman ------------------------------------------------------------ T. V. Raman: PhD (Cornell University) IBM Research: Human Language Technologies Architect: RDC --- Conversational And Multimodal WWW Standards Phone: 1 (408) 927 2608 T-Line 457-2608 Fax: 1 (408) 927 3012 Cell: 1 650 799 5724 Email: tvraman@us.ibm.com WWW: http://almaden.ibm.com/u/tvraman (google:raman+labrador) AIM: emacspeak GPG: http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/tvraman/raman-almaden.asc Snail: IBM Almaden Research Center, 650 Harry Road San Jose 95120
Received on Monday, 18 April 2005 19:43:17 UTC