- From: T. V. Raman <tvraman@us.ibm.com>
- Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:43:27 -0700
- To: mark.birbeck@x-port.net
- Cc: tvraman@almaden.ibm.com, Leigh.Klotz@xerox.com, suzan.foster@nerocmediaware.nl, www-forms@w3.org
Mark -- I wasn't clear in my earlier note.
I wasn't pushing back on sort in the UI layer; I was pushing back
on the idea of doing it with simple attrs on the UI construct
because I think that appraoch (i.e. attrs) will not have enough
expressive power.
>>>>> "Mark" == Mark Birbeck <mark.birbeck@x-port.net> writes:
Mark> Raman,
>> The idea of putting sort attrs on the ui layer is
>> enticing, but I am afraid it will run into a wall fairly
>> quickly.
Mark>
Mark> I disagree ;)
Mark>
Mark> As you know -- since you are a strong advocate for it
Mark> -- there are many situations where the UI does not
Mark> *directly* reflect the model. For example, take
Mark> xf:select1; its purpose is for the user to choose an
Mark> item from a list, but it is possible for the list to
Mark> not be 'in view', even though the list is obviously in
Mark> the model. The list might be limited because the author
Mark> has used:
Mark>
Mark> @appearance="minimal"
Mark>
Mark> or it might be limited because the user has collapsed a
Mark> node in a tree, or whatever.
Mark>
Mark> Other examples would be the use of date pickers to both
Mark> select and render dates, check-boxes that look nothing
Mark> like the word 'true' or 'false', colour pickers that
Mark> obviously don't look like #ab7f34, a number like "100"
Mark> stored in the model but rendered as "$100.00", and so
Mark> on.
Mark>
Mark> So, my view is that *some* (not all) of the use cases
Mark> for sorting fall into this domain -- the user might be
Mark> able to control them and the author might be able to
Mark> hint at them, but either way, the model doesn't
Mark> care. (To put it in terms of the MVC architecture, we
Mark> are simply allowing the creation of an ordered 'view'
Mark> of a set of nodes, without touching the underlying
Mark> nodes.)
Mark>
Mark>
Mark> I would say that the sortable columns of email or
Mark> contacts falls into the category of a 'user sort' --
Mark> this can be done with no mark-up at all, since it's
Mark> just a more complex version of the button next to a
Mark> drop-box that shows you the list of options, and is not
Mark> under the control of XForms, but under the control of
Mark> the user agent.
Mark>
Mark> In the category of an 'author-hint sort' would be the
Mark> rendering of the selections in a selection list; the
Mark> names of the countries would be in one order in one
Mark> language, and in another order in another language, for
Mark> example.
Mark>
Mark> And in the category of a 'model sort' might be the list
Mark> of items in a flowchart, since in this case the order
Mark> in the model really does matter.
Mark>
Mark> The 'model sort' is more accurately a proper
Mark> re-ordering of nodes, that should be permanent, and
Mark> would therefore be achieved through an action or
Mark> extension function. The second one is more like a
Mark> 'filter' -- a different 'view' on the same underlying
Mark> nodes, but with those nodes left completely intact.
Mark>
Mark> Regards,
Mark>
Mark> Mark
Mark>
Mark>
Mark> Mark Birbeck CEO x-port.net Ltd.
Mark>
Mark> e: Mark.Birbeck@x-port.net t: +44 (0) 20 7689 9232 w:
Mark> http://www.formsPlayer.com/ b:
Mark> http://internet-apps.blogspot.com/
Mark>
Mark> Download our XForms processor from
Mark> http://www.formsPlayer.com/
Mark>
Mark>
--
Best Regards,
--raman
------------------------------------------------------------
T. V. Raman: PhD (Cornell University)
IBM Research: Human Language Technologies
Architect: RDC --- Conversational And Multimodal WWW Standards
Phone: 1 (408) 927 2608 T-Line 457-2608
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Received on Monday, 18 April 2005 19:43:17 UTC