Re: xslt stylesheet for xforms to xhtml

I think that Robert had a very good point in his original message and 
I'm not surprised it's the most asked question on this list. The reason 
for this is that people usually start out with experience from HTML or 
XMTHL forms and realize that they sucks big time. If I have a form and 
there is choice between two options, should I use <select></select> or 
<input type="radio" />? Well thats something the web designer should 
decide, I'm specifying a form not a user interface. Once you realize 
this you star searching for a better way to express your forms and you 
find XForms. Unfortunately it turns out that XForms is (very?) hard to 
apply in todays environments (web server + Internet Explorer). What I 
need is something that fit the Servlet -> XML -(XSLT)-> HTML  model to 
generate web pages. This model requires that the XML data and XSLT 
template is strait forward and easy to understand for a web designer 
(and easy on server resources). I consider it a serious shortcoming of 
Xforms not to support _easy/simple_ transformation to HTML.

Validation and Schema stuff can always be done on the server when the 
reply is sent back from the client. Sure, it's always nice if the 
browser can validate input and avoid round trips but for me that's not 
very important.

/Roger P

Tomayko, Ryan wrote:

>Wonderful response to probably the most asked qustion on the list. Do you
>mind if I save this off and quote it the next time this question is asked?
>
>- Ryan
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Dan Dennedy [mailto:DDennedy@digitalbang.com] 
>Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 10:00 AM
>To: Robert Trybis; www-forms@w3.org
>Subject: RE: xslt stylesheet for xforms to xhtml
>
>
>
>I think you are missing an important point. Sure, you could make an xslt
>that translates a small subset of xforms to xhthml forms, but XForms is not
>simply a new forms UI markup. The real value lies in its use of XML Schema
>for validation and its binding to xml instance data. The XML Schema handling
>simply can not be handled purely in xslt. I could see how a pure xslt can
>handle binding to a single inline data instance, but it will break down when
>you have to deal with multiple models, with multiple instances, and with
>externally xlink-ed instances.
>
>If you just want to learn about authoring xforms, then I suggest using the
>X-Smiles browser. If you want to see an xslt+extension server-side
>processor, then checkout the Chiba project on SourceForge. Both of these
>will teach you a lot--not only authoring concepts, but implementation
>details through source code. 
>
>  
>
>>From: Robert Trybis
>>
>>Torsten wrote;
>>    
>>
>>>this is not possible without using extensions. (you need to evaluate
>>>      
>>>
>>xpaths at
>>    
>>
>>>runtime) it has been tried before ;-)
>>>      
>>>
>>Surely this is not completely correct?
>>Xforms is xml and xhtml is xml so a using xslt to translate
>>between the two should be possible should it not?
>>
>>Xforms exists because xhtml was found lacking for forms
>>processing. So it must follow that there will be some things 
>>that can be defined in xforms that cannot easily be done in 
>>xhtml. However if I keep my xforms simple and self-contained 
>>am I not likely to be able to make a usable translation?
>>
>>I am just learning about xslt and xforms and having a
>>stylesheet, that converts xforms to xhtml, would teach me a 
>>lot - even if its just the limitations of what can be done. 
>>Does anybody know where there is a stylesheet?
>>
>>Regards
>>Robert
>>
>>    
>>