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Re: Structural schema validation and datatype validation of first text node

From: John Boyer <boyerj@ca.ibm.com>
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 19:20:35 -0700
To: ebruchez@orbeon.com
Cc: public-forms@w3.org, www-forms-editor@w3.org, www-forms-editor-request@w3.org
Message-ID: <OFFA3A2FAE.8C964DF5-ONCA2572EB.000C2E6C-882572EB.000CDF74@ca.ibm.com>
Hi Erik,

You've raised interesting questions.

1. My longest standing action item right now pertains to a group decision 
to have revalidate only perform validation of datatypes, not structural 
validation, *except* during submission.  I have had that on the backburner 
for a while now due to more pressing issues.  The way things look, I could 
use help getting around to the writing.  Hence, what 4.3.5 currently says 
is that *all* instance nodes are checked for validity.  So I don't 
understand why you think full structural validation never happens, esp. 
before submission.

2. Yes, we did think of alternatives, and at last year's June FtF I 
believe, we ended up agreeing that the simplest way to ensure that the 
type MIP was not applied to nodes with complex content was to say they 
didn't apply to nodes with child elements.  Having a UI binding to the 
first child text element is a messy hack, by the way.  Hmm. perhaps that 
statement will produce some spirited responses :-)

Anyway, the conclusion to this response is that I don't think additional 
work is needed beyond what is already committed in action items.

John M. Boyer, Ph.D.
STSM: Lotus Forms Architect and Researcher
Chair, W3C Forms Working Group
Workplace, Portal and Collaboration Software
IBM Victoria Software Lab
E-Mail: boyerj@ca.ibm.com 

Blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/JohnBoyer

Erik Bruchez <ebruchez@orbeon.com> 
Sent by: www-forms-editor-request@w3.org
05/25/2007 11:08 AM
Please respond to

Structural schema validation and datatype validation of first text  node


If I understand sections "4.3.5 The xforms-revalidate Event" and
"6.1.1 The type Property" of XForms 1.1, XForms only considers
datatypes during revalidation.

A few questions then:

1. Does this mean that in XForms, we never perform full structural
    validation, even before submission? If so, where is this specified?

2. 6.1.1 says "The type model item property is not applied to instance
    nodes that contain child elements.". However, controls bound to
    elements store and retrieve data as the first child text node of
    the element, see 8.1.1:

      "returns the string-value of the first text child node"

    and 10.8:

      "the first text node is replaced with one corresponding to the
       new value"

    Wouldn't it make sense, for consistency, to say that type
    validation applies to the first child text node (empty string if
    none) of an element?

    I don't have a very strong opinion on this. Maybe doing so would
    violate expectations of schema validation? But here, we are only
    using datatypes to validate captured data, not validating
    structure, so I am not sure if this is a concern.

    I am wondering if this was considered at all.


Orbeon Forms - Web Forms for the Enterprise Done the Right Way
Received on Wednesday, 30 May 2007 02:20:54 UTC

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