Frames, client side maps, URL guessing etc. (was: Amaya 4.2.1)

> From:	Volker Kuhlmann []
> 1) No support for frames. This doesn't bode well these days. Yes I
> can't stand them either, but do need to look at them.
	[DJW:]  These have been deprecated for about 4 years now
	and nearly all the first rank high profile sites (Microsoft,
	Deja, AltaVista, Google, etc.) do not use them, at least for
	home pages.

	Amaya is only secondarily a viewer, it is primarily an editor
	aiming to create strict HTML. (Nontheless there are various 
	features for viewing non-compliant pages - however frames is
	such a major feature, that I'd doubt the developers would ever
	consider them.)

	[DJW:]  Incidentally the site quoted has severe accessibility
	problems in this area as there is just a condescending message
	instead of a useful <noframes> section.  The frame names are 
	better than many, but only marginally useful in terms of the
	de facto work round used by text mode browsers for framesets
	with semantically broken <noframes> elements.
> 3) It's impossible to access links derived from coordinates over an
> image. This is also common these days; amaya fails dismally. These links
> don't show up in the link view either. See for an
> example.
	Client side image maps seem to be broken on NT4 - the areas are
	in the wrong place.  Also, the plain text view fails to show them,
	whereas they ought to be displayed, at least conditionally - there
	is an alternative way of specifying them which falls back better
	to browsers that don't understand client side maps at all, which
	I guess is what Amaya is trying to simulate in the alternative
	view, and why it doesn't show them, but the most likely text only
	browser, Lynx, shows the image as a link to a virtual page
	links for each of the areas.

	Note the current consensus in the presentationalist world is
	that one should use table mosaic's, partly because the structure
	is apparent before all the images have loaded (although mouseovers
	are probably an another factor).

	I think the current accessibility position is that you should not
	do text as graphics.

> Political correctness only makes annoying software.
	[DJW:]  Amaya is intended to be politically correct software.
	It's aim is to create valid HTML.  On the other hand, whilst 
	scheme guessing doesn't add to its primary goals, it probably
	doesn't get in the way either.  Personally I always key in the
	schema and trailing slashes, etc. into IE.

	[DJW:]  These are just my views.  I know the team have their own
	views as to which real life web site features they will work around,
	even when there is no benefit to the editor function.

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Received on Wednesday, 10 January 2001 08:36:31 UTC