- From: Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>
- Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2015 16:35:49 -0400
- To: "wai-xtech@w3.org" <wai-xtech@w3.org>
Link: http://www.w3.org/2015/06/09-aapi-minutes.html
Plain text follows:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
09 Jun 2015
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2015/06/09-aapi-irc
Attendees
Present
Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa,
Rich
Regrets
Cynthia_Shelly
Chair
Joseph_Scheuhammer
Scribe
joanie
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]ISSUE-635/ACTION-1546/ACTION-1643: (Joseph, David,
Aleax, James) AAPI mappings for role rowgroup.
2. [5]ACTION-842: (Cynthia) Create a diagram to support
section 1.2 A11Y vs DOM tree.
3. [6]ACTION-1620: (Cynthia) Propose UIA Express and UIA
mappings for aria-placeholder.
4. [7]ACTION-1311: (Joseph) Clarify that presentation
role should preserve separation of nodes within
table/lists.
5. [8]ACTION-1373: (Cynthia) Create a test case for when
aria-posinset and aria-setsize are provided explicitly
on some but not all elements.
6. [9]ACTION-1608: (Cynthia) Bring up issue-708 with the
html-a11y taskforce.
7. [10]ACTION-1623: (Joseph) Confirm with James Craig
that the proper AXAPI mapping of aria-placeholder is
AXPlaceholderValue.
* [11]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 09 June 2015
<clown> agenda: this
<scribe> scribe: joanie
<richardschwerdtfeger> yeah, send me all that please
<richardschwerdtfeger> thanks
ISSUE-635/ACTION-1546/ACTION-1643: (Joseph, David, Aleax, James) AAPI
mappings for role rowgroup.
<clown> issue-635?
<trackbot> issue-635 -- Determine if uaig mappings for rowgroup
are correct -- open
<trackbot> [12]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/635
[12] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/635
<clown> action-1546?
<trackbot> action-1546 -- David Bolter to Make sure the
rowgroup mapping for msaa/ia2 is accurate -- due 2014-12-23 --
OPEN
<trackbot>
[13]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1546
[13] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1546
<clown> action-1643?
<trackbot> action-1643 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Provide
mappings for role="rowgroup" for atk/at-spi when there is an
accessible in the a11y tree for the element. -- due 2015-06-09
-- OPEN
<trackbot>
[14]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1643
[14] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1643
JS: I'll give you a brief update about what's going on with
rowgroup.
... I've sent email to James Craig about my example with
rowgroups that are interactive, focusable, etc.
... He's not replied.
... I looked at this using the Apple accessibility inspector.
... There's no rowgroups in the tree.
... It looks like when the rowgroup is focused, the web area is
focused.
RS: I don't understand.
<clown>
[15]http://clown.idrc.ocad.ca/Fluid/aria/FocusableRowGroup.html
[15] http://clown.idrc.ocad.ca/Fluid/aria/FocusableRowGroup.html
JS: The above is my example.
... There's the Morning Rush Hour. If you Tab down you can
focus that rowgroup.
... (Explains his example)
RS: So the whole web page?
JS: Yes.
RS: That sounds like a bug.
JS: But they don't expose rowgroup, so where else are they
going to put focus?
BG: I'm looking at the spec. Reading rowgroup, it doesn't say
that it's supposed to be interactive.
... Row supports interactive, selected, etc.
... But rowgroup does not include active descendant as an
attribute.
RS: Part of the problem might be due to the fact we had no
mappings.
<clown> [16]http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#rowgroup
[16] http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#rowgroup
RS: If something is focusable, isn't there something you're
supposed to be doing to expose the object.
JD: Just file a bug against Safari.
BG: I was thinking that all the others support
aria-activedescendant.
... I think rowgroup should also support aria-activedescendant.
JS: I will file a bug against WebKit.
RS: This wasn't an issue for HTML4 because tabindex did not
apply to all elements.
JS: Right. It was limited to anchors, form fields, and the
like.
RS: Now tabindex is on everything.
... Because it's focusable, not mapping it is a serious bug in
WebKit.
JS: For ATK, rowgroup will be mapped to ROLE_PANEL if the
element is exposed.
RS: And as a group for everything else?
JS: IA2 does have a pane role.
RS: Didn't we already decide it would be mapped as a group for
the other platforms?
JS: If it's not focusable, we want it not mapped, right?
BG: Unless it has aria-owns.
(Discussion about what to do with the non-interactive
rowgroups)
BG: I like the idea of exposing it all the time because it
would support labeling.
JS: If you label it, then it has to be exposed because the name
can't just float around.
RS: So it's a panel in ATK, and a group for the rest.
... On the Mac API, you have role, subrole, and role
description.
JS: I think that comes out of the bug report.
... Do you want to discuss that here and now?
RS: What happens to group?
<richardschwerdtfeger> JD: My only concern is can the
AXRoleDescription be free floating text?
<richardschwerdtfeger> JD: There are a few roles where the
accessibility API does not change as a result of OS changes?
<richardschwerdtfeger> JD: I am using Fedora 22. FF exposes new
versions for which on older versions of the platform there are
no APIs that are consistent with the changes in the FF
implementation (mapping)
<richardschwerdtfeger> Rich: Apple “can” update everything when
they change Safari - inluding VoiceOver, APIs, etc.
JS: I can put in what Rich suggested for AX API mappings and
add a comment saying "To be determined".
ACTION-842: (Cynthia) Create a diagram to support section 1.2 A11Y vs
DOM tree.
<clown> action-842?
<trackbot> action-842 -- Cynthia Shelly to Create a diagram to
support section 1.2 A11Y vs DOM tree -- due 2015-09-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[17]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/842
[17] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/842
JS: Cynthia is not here, but emailed me to indicate she'd
updated her action. So I'll look.
... Looking at the action, it's due on 30 Sept now.
... What is the due date for ARIA 1.1?
RS: I'd like to have it go to CR sometime in fall.
JS: Does that mean all the tests are run?
RS: No. You don't have to have the tests when you enter CR.
JS: This is a diagram. It doesn't depend on tests.
RS: But document freeze date should be around TPAC.
JS: She says it will land on September 30th.
... So it could still land in ARIA 1.1. Otherwise, it becomes
part of ARIA 2.
ACTION-1620: (Cynthia) Propose UIA Express and UIA mappings for
aria-placeholder.
<clown> action-1620?
<trackbot> action-1620 -- Cynthia Shelly to Propose UIA Express
and UIA mappings for aria-placeholder. -- due 2015-06-09 --
CLOSED
<trackbot>
[18]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1620
[18] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1620
JS: She closed this one; no, I closed it. That must mean I made
the edits.
<clown>
[19]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ar
iaPlaceholder
[19]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaPlaceholder
JS: I know what's outstanding: There are mappings in the
Editor's Draft for UIA.
... But last week she wanted this to be included in the
Accessible Name calculation.
... But she wasn't sure if it took precedence over title.
... I don't want it in the name computation.
RS: It's not a suitable replacement for labels.
action-1644
<trackbot> action-1644 -- Cynthia Shelly to Check which is the
actual last resort betwen @title and @aria-placeholder. -- due
2015-06-09 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[20]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1644
[20] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1644
JS: Action 1644 is the action assigned to Cynthia to get an
answer about title versus placeholder.
... The UIA mappings are already in the Editor's Draft.
ACTION-1311: (Joseph) Clarify that presentation role should preserve
separation of nodes within table/lists.
<clown> action-1311?
<trackbot> action-1311 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Clarify that
presentation role should preserve separation of nodes within
tables/lists; work out in UAIG 1.1 and with
implementors/vendors how to resolve this. -- due 2015-05-26 --
OPEN
<trackbot>
[21]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1311
[21] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1311
JS: This is one that's been on my todo list for a long time.
... I've got in my notes on this, that it's waiting on the
generic container role ARIA issue.
action-1515
<trackbot> action-1515 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Discuss
issue-678 at the mon aria teleconference. -- due 2015-02-24 --
CLOSED
<trackbot>
[22]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1515
[22] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1515
<clown> action-1515?
<trackbot> action-1515 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Discuss
issue-678 at the mon aria teleconference. -- due 2015-02-24 --
CLOSED
<trackbot>
[23]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1515
[23] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1515
JS: I'm blocked on this until that action is done.
<clown> action-144?
<trackbot> action-144 -- Michael Cooper to Research precedent
in other W3C specs for how "should" statements affect CR
testing and exit requirements -- due 2010-01-15 -- CLOSED
<trackbot>
[24]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/144
[24] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/144
<clown> action-1444?
<trackbot> action-1444 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Update
atk/at-spi2 mapping for role presentation in tables and lists.
-- due 2015-02-24 -- CLOSED
<trackbot>
[25]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1444
[25] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1444
JD: I don't know why you're blocked on it.
RS: I thought we did this already.
... We had a whole discussion on the generic containers during
one of our calls here.
JS: I don't recall this.
RS: What I recall, they were going to call the generic
container role a group no matter what on IE.
... For MSAA and IA2, that was going to be a group as well.
... I don't recall what we're doing for the Mac.
... But I'd think it would be AXGroup.
... And I thought ATK/AT-SPI2 was always going to be PANEL
<clown>
[26]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#pr
esentation
[26]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#presentation
JS: The above URL is for role presentation.
... (Reads clause for ATK)
... We have similar wording for UIA.
... I could put in similar wording for MSAA and IA2.
... I will need input for Apple.
... Ok, I'm unstuck. I will make the edits.
ACTION-1373: (Cynthia) Create a test case for when aria-posinset and
aria-setsize are provided explicitly on some but not all elements.
<clown> action-1373?
<trackbot> action-1373 -- Cynthia Shelly to Create a test case
for when aria-posinset and aria-setsize are provided explicitly
on some but not all elements. -- due 2015-08-15 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[27]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1373
[27] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1373
JS: Cynthia moved this ahead to August 15th.
... This is more important because the action is to create a
test case.
... I think we say in the spec that the browser will figure it
out.
... What should happen?
<clown>
[28]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ar
iaPosinset
[28]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaPosinset
RS: Honestly, I don't know if the browser is going to figure it
out.
JS: (Reads from spec for above URL)
RS: But if they put a posinset and setsize on items 2 and 4,
but they say "5 of 8" and "7 of 8". You cannot get that from
the DOM.
... I don't think we should expect the user agents to figure
this out.
JS: The statement could mean "if not provided at all," that
would make more sense to me.
... But it doesn't say what to do if the author puts some in
but not all.
RS: I don't think we should worry about it. I think it's an
error condition.
ACTION-1608: (Cynthia) Bring up issue-708 with the html-a11y
taskforce.
<clown> action-1608?
<trackbot> action-1608 -- Cynthia Shelly to Bring up issue-708
with the html-a11y taskforce. -- due 2015-06-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[29]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1608
[29] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1608
JS: She changed the due date to the end of June.
issue-708
<trackbot> issue-708 -- The phrase "If not already excluded
from the accessibility tree per the rules above" implies that
the listed conditions do not override. Is that correct? -- open
<trackbot> [30]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/708
[30] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/708
JS: I didn't make any notes here.
... I will keep this one on our radar.
ACTION-1623: (Joseph) Confirm with James Craig that the proper AXAPI
mapping of aria-placeholder is AXPlaceholderValue.
<clown> action-1623?
<trackbot> action-1623 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Confirm with
James Craig that the proper AXAPI mapping of aria-placeholder
is AXPlaceholderValue. -- due 2015-04-28 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[31]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1623
[31] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1623
JS: James confirmed the mapping for aria-placeholder.
... So I can close this action.
Summary of Action Items
[End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 9 June 2015 20:36:41 UTC