- From: Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>
- Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 16:16:53 -0400
- To: wai-xtech@w3.org
Link: http://www.w3.org/2014/03/25-aapi-minutes.html
Plain text follows:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
25 Mar 2014
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2014/03/25-aapi-irc
Attendees
Present
Bryan_Garaventa, Joseph_Scheuhammer, joanie, [Microsoft]
Regrets
David_Bolter
Chair
Joseph_Scheuhammer
Scribe
joanie, cyns
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]Now have a 1.1 version of the UAIG (Joseph).
2. [5]agenda+ ACTION-1369 (David): Investigate FF
implementation of aria-live removal events (see also
ISSUE-481).
3. [6]ACTION-1399 /ISSUE-644: (All) Updated mappings of
aria-hidden="true" to reflect elements should not be
exposed/mapped -- please review.
4. [7]1.1 ISSUES and ACTIONS: (All) Start with ISSUE-540,
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23
agenda+ be done.
* [8]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 25 March 2014
<clown> agenda: this
<scribe> scribe: joanie
<clown> scribenick: joanie
This is a test.
<clown>
[9]http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation-1.1/#mapping_ev
ents_selection
[9]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation-1.1/#mapping_events_selection
<clown>
[10]http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation-1.1/#focus_sta
te_event_table
[10]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation-1.1/#focus_state_event_table
Now have a 1.1 version of the UAIG (Joseph).
JS: We now have a 1.1 version of the UAIG.
<clown>
[11]http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation-1.1/#mapping_r
ole_table
[11]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation-1.1/#mapping_role_table
JS: Most of the work that I did was getting Jason's table
script
... If you look at the script you'll see you can do it as a
table or as different roles.
... The script carves it up in different ways depending on what
button is pushed.
... I have no idea how good it is for screen readers. I assume
it is good.
CS: Jason has taken this into consideration, though it would be
good to get some screen reader users to confirm this.
JS: The other thing that I did is put the UIA columns back in.
CS: Good. Thank you.
JS: The rest of the document is pretty much a copy of the 1.0
draft.
... I added this script to the role table, states and
properties table
<clown>
[12]http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation-1.1/#mapping_s
tate-property_table
[12]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation-1.1/#mapping_state-property_table
JS: And to the events
<clown>
[13]http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation-1.1/#mapping_e
vents_state-change
[13]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation-1.1/#mapping_events_state-change
JS: All the other tables I thought were small enough that they
didn't need this.
... But other people might have a different opinion.
... Any questions/comments?
CS: The hide and show icons seem reversed to me.
JS: They do to me too.
... When you press the toggle button they hide the column.
... But the label is show/hide column.
(Additional discussion about the UI resulting from the script.)
JS: I will make a note.
CS: I just hid everything but the UIA columns. This is going to
be useful to compare.
agenda+ ACTION-1369 (David): Investigate FF implementation of
aria-live removal events (see also ISSUE-481).
JS: David sent me an email this morning indicating he has been
sick for the past week and may not be able to attend.
ACTION-1399 /ISSUE-644: (All) Updated mappings of aria-hidden="true"
to reflect elements should not be exposed/mapped -- please review.
<clown> issue-644?
<trackbot> issue-644 -- Update ATK/AT-SPI mapping for
aria-hidden="true" to reflect elements should not be
exposed/mapped -- open
<trackbot> [14]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/644
[14] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/644
JS: This is something that Joanie raised. She wanted some text
changed.
... ... In the ATK/AT-SPI2 mapping for aria-hidden="true".
... This was discussed on several occasions here.
... Consensus was reached.
<clown>
[15]http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation-1.1/#mapping_s
tate-property_table
[15]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation-1.1/#mapping_state-property_table
<clown> Element SHOULD NOT be exposed, unless it is focused or
fires an accessibility event. If the object is exposed in the
accessibility tree, map all attributes as normal, and expose
JS: But then I decided that this change was appropriate for
other APIs as well, with the exception of Apple.
(JS reads the text from the document)
CS: Sounds right.
<clown> Not exposed in AX API unless focused. If focused,
expose as normal.
JS: The Apple cell says almost the same thing (reads the above
text)
... I am not aware of the Apple API having an object attribute
... And Mozilla will not agree with must not.
... So if everyone is ok with that, I will close the actions
and the issue.
JD: I agree that this sounds good.
... Having the stronger, and similar language in the cells is
helpful.
<bgaraventa1979> I was on mute, but sounds good to me as well
JS: Closed!
1.1 ISSUES and ACTIONS: (All) Start with ISSUE-540,
[16]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23 agenda+ be
done.
[16] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23
<clown> [17]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23
[17] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23
JS: We left off at 540.
<clown> issue-540?
<trackbot> issue-540 -- Should the UAIG have a section to
describe the API differences -- raised
<trackbot> [18]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/540
[18] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/540
JS: Which I don't see anymore. Did someone close 540?
... It's raised. I should open it then.
CS: Not a bad idea.
JS: Jason raised the issue.
... James Craig has a couple of notes here.
... This was originally raised against the spec.
CS: This is not a bad idea. I guess we can ask Jason write a
draft.
... It seems like a good idea for someone who doesn't own the
API to write the first draft. And then have people involved in
creating those APIs review it.
<clown> ACTION: Joseph to send email to Jason Kiss to ask him
if he could write a AAPI section that describes API
differences. [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2014/03/25-aapi-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1408 - Send email to jason kiss to
ask him if he could write a aapi section that describes api
differences. [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2014-04-01].
<clown> trackbot, associate action-1408 with issue-540
<trackbot> action-1408 (Send email to jason kiss to ask him if
he could write a aapi section that describes api differences.)
associated with issue-540.
<clown> issue-583?
<trackbot> issue-583 -- Elements that are descendants of an
element having aria-activedescendant should not all be
focusable -- open
<trackbot> [20]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/583
[20] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/583
JS: This is a weird one.
CS: This is a difference between browser first implementation
and platform first implementations.
JS: When Rich brought this issue up, he mentioned the
descendant would need to have an ID to be focusable.
<clown> action-1222?
<trackbot> action-1222 -- David Bolter to Look into ISSUE-583,
and think about section 4.3, step 4A to see if that answers the
question. -- due 2013-05-16 -- CLOSED
<trackbot>
[21]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1222
[21] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1222
JS: And if you look in the UAIG, it says that.
... David and I and Alex asked if what was in the UAIG was
sufficient, and Alex said "yeah".
... There is a test case. The URL is wrong now.
(JS: brings the test case up)
(JS: Not able to find it)
JS: I may need to email Rich.
... I will take a look. Cynthia, you might be right. This might
be dead.
... But I want to find the test case and be sure it works.
... What the UAIG says if the element has an ID and role, it's
focusable.
... Any other child that is missing an ID and/or a role is not
focusable.
... Are there are any objections?
CS: No objections.
<clown> issue-612?
<trackbot> issue-612 -- Review ia2/atk rule in group position.
should this really determine level based on aria-owns chain.
see uaig:
[22]http://www.w3.org/wai/pf/aria-implementation/#mapping_addit
ional_position and test case 69:
[23]https://www.w3.org/wai/pf/testharness/testresults?tes --
open
[22]
http://www.w3.org/wai/pf/aria-implementation/#mapping_additional_position
[23] https://www.w3.org/wai/pf/testharness/testresults?tes
<trackbot> [24]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/612
[24] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/612
<cyns> scribe: cyns
joanie: is this about how it's computed?
<joanie>
[25]https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=499917
[25] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=499917
<clown> <p>If <code
class="property-reference">aria-level</code> is not provided or
inherited for an element of <a href="#def_role"
class="termref">role</a> <code
class="role-reference">treeitem</code>, user agents
implementing IAccessible2 or <abbr title="Accessibility
Toolkit">ATK</abbr>/<abbr title="Assistive Technology-Service
Provider Interface">AT-SPI</abbr> <span
class="rfc2119">must</span> compute it by following the
explicit or computed <code>RELATION_NODE_C[CUT]
<joanie> scribe: joanie
JD: In comment #5 of the above Mozilla bug, David states:
"In the end it is simply punted to ARIA 1.1. See "agreement to
add Issue-612 to ARIA-1.1" here
[26]http://www.w3.org/2013/10/22-aapi-minutes.html"
[26] http://www.w3.org/2013/10/22-aapi-minutes.html
<clown> If aria-level is not provided or inherited for an
element of role treeitem, user agents implementing IAccessible2
or ATKAT-SPI must compute it by following the explicit or
computed RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF relations.
(JS: reads the above text)
<cyns> scribe: cyns
joanie: orca is not currenlty looking the attribute. but if it
has the relation node child of or parent of relations, we use
that. Why are we asking browsers to compute somethhing that
orca doesn't look at anyway.
... orca uses the relationship, so asking mozilla and webkit to
calculate stuff when the real way to expose it is through
existing atk stuff.
... this is making special cases for ATK. I don't like that.
js: aria-level is telling you this is a nested tree.
joanie: that what node relations are for
js: gnome a11y had this , should add to atk
joanie: orca doesn't want special cases for aria. should be
like any other app
... this can be 1.1, because that won't be full rec unti 2016.
atk doesn't have this, but maybe will by then.
cs: add this now, and put it at risk at when we get to last
call?
joanie: need to check with collegue.
<joanie> scribe: joanie
<scribe> ACTION: Joanie to file a bug against ATK in GNOME's
bugzilla requesting new position, level, and other API be
added. [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2014/03/25-aapi-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1409 - File a bug against atk in
gnome's bugzilla requesting new position, level, and other api
be added. [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2014-04-01].
trackbot, associate action-1409 with issue-612
<trackbot> action-1409 (File a bug against atk in gnome's
bugzilla requesting new position, level, and other api be
added.) associated with issue-612.
<Zakim> Joseph_Scheuhammer, you wanted to ask how is level
calculated in a desktop (non-aria) tree?
JS: My question was, you don't want to make a distinction
between ARIA and non-ARIA. And you're right.
... So how is level calculated now for the Desktop?
JD: Level is calculated by ascending the hierarchy via
ATK/ATSPI_NODE_PARENT_OF
... Position in set is calculated by a combination of
NODE_PARENT_OF followed by looking at the NODE_CHILD_OF
instances.
JS: The text in question is commented out.
... Should I uncomment it now?
... And then modify it as needed as we work through this issue?
... It's kind of tough now because this issue refers to text
which no one can see because it's commented out.
JD: I think it's fine to make that change now.
JS: I'm going to do that.
... I will call the meeting to an end.
clown: k
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Joanie to file a bug against ATK in GNOME's
bugzilla requesting new position, level, and other API be
added. [recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2014/03/25-aapi-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Joseph to send email to Jason Kiss to ask him if
he could write a AAPI section that describes API differences.
[recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2014/03/25-aapi-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
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Received on Tuesday, 25 March 2014 20:17:29 UTC