- From: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
- Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 15:46:38 -0500
- To: James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>
- Cc: WAI XTech <wai-xtech@w3.org>, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>, Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com>
James Craig writes: > > > On Dec 8, 2014, at 10:46 AM, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> wrote: > > > > James Craig writes: > >> On Dec 8, 2014, at 10:14 AM, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> wrote: > >> > >>> There's an important question that's being lost when discussed in the > >>> context of ARIA-DescribedAt (or the context of HTML Longdesc). We need a > >>> clear consensus statement somewhere in our ARIA docs about whether, or > >>> not ARIA is restricted for use by AT user agents via Accessibility APIs. > >>> > >>> In other words, do we insist the curb cut is for wheel chairs only? All > >>> skate boards and baby strollers must stay away. > >> > >> This is a misinterpretation of the case against @aria-describedat. ARIA has always been an accessibility-only approach. If you want to use the curb cut analogy, native host language features are the curb cuts. @aria-describedat may be more equivalent to the bolt-on wheelchair elevators you sometimes see used to retrofit old staircases. > > > > No, I'm not trying to characterize your views about DescribedAt. > > Okay, my mistake. It may have been better to start a new thread than retitle the aria-describedat thread. > > > I'm > > extracting one issue that ends up buried in among all kinds of > > discussion about DescribedAt as well as about Longdesc. > > > > I'm trying to clearly say that this same question is emerging from other > > contexts. I named Dpub as an additional source of additional ARIA that > > may be even attractive to mainstream. > > > >> The recommended approach (quoting from ARIA 1.0 Section 1.1): > >> > > Exactly. That was 1.0.. > > > > We've several times said we would revisit this concept in 1.1 and > > following. We need to do so apart from any particular feature. > > I have heard Cynthia say that from time-to-time though not regarding any specific feature. > > For the record, I disagree with the idea to make ARIA change any mainstream behavior of user agents. > If the operative word is "make," I agree with that. I'm suggesting no more than the option to do so, should someone find value in so doing. Afaik, that's the extent of what's on the table--nothing mandatory, only an option. Janina > James > > > > Janina > > > >>>> WAI-ARIA is intended to be used as a supplement for native language semantics, not a replacement. When the host language provides a feature that provides equivalent accessibility to the WAI-ARIA feature, use the host language feature. > >> > >> Using the native host language feature *is* the "curb cut" for everyone. ARIA is not, and never has been, a feature for everyone. ARIA provides amazing ability to retrofit legacy code and augment incomplete languages (including HTML) with additional accessibility semantics, but ARIA has never changed mainstream User Agent behavior. > >> > >> Case in point: tabindex. TabIndex is not part of ARIA for the same reason that @aria-describedat cannot be. It changes the behavior of the browser in a way that affects everyone, so any feature that provides this functionality MUST be part of the native host language. > >> > >> James > >> > >> > >>> It's probably the case that DescribedAt is the wrong context for this > >>> larger policy question because it's so freighted with deeply entrenched > >>> viewpoints and a long, contentious history in the form of HTML Longdesc. > >>> > >>> However, other ARIA applications are shortly to emerge from our joint > >>> efforts with the Digital Publishing Interest Group in the W3C which will > >>> also raise the question of who can benefit from ARIA. This is why we > >>> need a more widely applicable, and clearly articulated group consensus > >>> on the question. > >>> > >>> We have heard recently, and in years past the browser developers among > >>> us say that keeping ARIA restricted to AAPIs explains much of their > >>> success. Because there are not requirements on mainstream browsers, it's > >>> been relatively easy to add ARIA support. Here's David Bolter on this > >>> very question in 2012, though it, too, is hidden in discussion of > >>> Longdesc and DescribedAt: > >>> > >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Mar/0405.html > >>> > >>> My personal view is that we should probably clarify our ARIA spec > >>> language on this point. Where we currently have language such as "user > >>> agents should" should be broken out into something along the lines of > >>> "mainstream user agents may implement" with respect to their own UI, and > >>> "should provide interfaces for AT applications via AAPIs." > >>> > >>> Can we perhaps separate the DescribedAt conversation along these lines? > >>> The feature itself, vs who's expected to do what with it as a separate > >>> conversation about who's allowed to benefit from ARIA in general? > >>> > >>> Janina > >>> > >>> -- > >>> > >>> Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200 > >>> sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net > >>> Email: janina@rednote.net > >>> > >>> Linux Foundation Fellow > >>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org > >>> > >>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) > >>> Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf > >>> Indie UI http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/ > >>> > >> > > > > -- > > > > Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200 > > sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net > > Email: janina@rednote.net > > > > Linux Foundation Fellow > > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org > > > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) > > Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf > > Indie UI http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/ > -- Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200 sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net Email: janina@rednote.net Linux Foundation Fellow Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf Indie UI http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/
Received on Monday, 8 December 2014 20:47:11 UTC