- From: Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>
- Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2014 16:15:46 -0500
- To: Wai Xtech <wai-xtech@w3.org>
Link: http://www.w3.org/2014/12/02-aapi-minutes.html
Plain text follows:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
02 Dec 2014
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2014/12/02-aapi-irc
Attendees
Present
Bryan_Garaventa, Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer,
Rich_Schwerdtfeger
Regrets
David_Bolter
Chair
Joseph_Scheuhammer
Scribe
Rich, Joanie
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]agenda+ ACTION-1254: (Joseph) Consume/cancel
keydown event when keypress is consumed/cancelled.
2. [5]ACTION-1396: (Cynthia) UIA mappings for role grid
to convey beyond table.
3. [6]ACTION-1311/ACTION-1444/ACTION-1445: (Joseph,
Cynthia) Clarify that presentation role should
preserve separation of nodes within tables/lists.
4. [7]ACTION-1531/ISSUE-435: (David) investigate ia2
mapping of role="text".
* [8]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 02 December 2014
<clown> agenda: this
<joanie> scribenick: joanie
agenda+ ACTION-1254: (Joseph) Consume/cancel keydown event when
keypress is consumed/cancelled.
<clown> action-1245?
<trackbot> action-1245 -- Michael Cooper to Review CSS
Cascading and Inheritance Level 3
[9]http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-css-cascade-3-20130730/ -- due
2013-08-14 -- CLOSED
[9] http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-css-cascade-3-20130730/
<trackbot>
[10]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1245
[10] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1245
<clown> action-1254
<trackbot> action-1254 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Work with
WebApps working group to ensure that DOM spec states when a
keydown event is consumed/cancelled that the corresponding
keypress event is also cancelled. -- due 2014-11-25 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[11]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1254
[11] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1254
JS: I meant to do this this morning.
... It will be done by next week.
... [Reads action text]
... I was supposed to send an email to Travis L.
... I was also going to create a test case.
... I'll put the due date off 1 week.
... [Requests Travis L's email address]
... If not, I'll try to find out from Cynthia or look through
the WebApps group members and see if I can find it.
<clown> action-1409?
<trackbot> action-1409 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Monitor progress
of bug against atk in gnome's bugzilla requesting new position,
level, and other api be added
([12]https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727453) -- due
2014-11-25 -- OPEN
[12] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727453)
<trackbot>
[13]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1409
[13] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1409
<richardschwerdtfeger> scribe: Rich
<richardschwerdtfeger> joseph: in ATK object you have room for
one more method and you don’t want it to be groupPosition()
<scribe> scribenick: joanie
JD: In ATK we have exactly one more new method we can add to
AtkObject.
... I really, really, really want to add subrole support to ATK
-- more badly than I need group position API.
... Therefore, because of the lack of ability to add further
API to AtkObject, GNOME plans to create a new "Accessible"
interface (AtkAccessible?)
... That will solve the "lack of pads" problem. But it will not
happen this cycle, very likely.
JS: So the conclusion is that for now you are going to leave
these as object attributes?
JD: Yes.
JS: Is the new accessible interface going to have group
position, etc?
JD: Yes. And much, much more.
... Because the interface approach doesn't have "pads". We can
add new API until the cows come home.
JS: I understand all that. To bring it to a close?
JD: Two months please.
... I will try to tackle the AtkAccessible interface
draft/whatever this cycle. But no promises.
<richardschwerdtfeger> scribe: Joanie
ACTION-1396: (Cynthia) UIA mappings for role grid to convey beyond
table.
<clown> action-1396
<trackbot> action-1396 -- Cynthia Shelly to Modify uaig to
convey grid role in accessibility mappings, beyond table.
(atk/atspi/ ia2 xml-role=grid, macosx: roledescription: grid,
msaa/uiaexpress localizedcontroltype="grid"?) -- due 2014-11-15
-- OPEN
<trackbot>
[14]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1396
[14] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1396
JS: The issue is, there's an action for me for a while now to
put in the mapping to convey the fact that grids are more than
just tables.
... I've done these for all the other APIs, along with a
draft/proposal MSAA + UIA Express.
... I need Cynthia's feedback/review.
<clown>
[15]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ro
le-map-grid
[15]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-grid
JS: What it says now for grid is...
<clown> ROLE_SYSTEM_TABLE + AriaRole="grid"
<clown> ROLE_SYSTEM_TABLE + control type 'grid'
JS: The two solutions are: ROLE_SYSTEM_TABLE + AriaRole =
"grid" OR Localized Control Type is grid
... Anyone know enough about UIA express to judge which of
those is the right one?
RS: Do they do anything special for treegrid versus grid?
JS: treegrid is mapped to datagrid.
... I remember Cynthia saying datagrid is the only thing
available -- for treegrid.
BG: Are there any working examples for treegrid? They're hard
to use.
JS: I'll look, but how does that answer the question for UIA
Express.
<clown> scribenick: clown
RS: The APIs are different in FF and Safari
JD: I'm not sure of the question.
RS: Are you working on FF and WebKit in terms of exposing on
the AAPI layer?
JD: I'm not working on gecko.
RS: Are you staying in sync with FF team?
JD: I'm not sure, but since there is but one ATK/AT-SPI
mapping, they should be in sync.
RS: Let me give you an example.
... All the linux mappings were verified with FF.
... Are the webkit to ATK mappings the same?
<joanie> scribenick: joanie
JD: Mapping should be the same. I'm only working on WebKit
development-wise. If I find a Gecko bug, I file it.
JS: How does all of this relate to the agenda item?
... Namely, how does UIA Express map grid in a way that
expresses that it is interactive?
... I need A UIA Express expert to tell me which of my proposed
two options is right.
RS: Are you an expert? Or is there one?
JS: Cynthia. I wouldn't be surprised if Alex knows.
RS: We need someone who is doing the implementations in IE.
BG: What are the differences between treegrid and grid?
JS: My recollection is that datagrid doesn't make a distinction
between treegrid and grid.
... Rich, you recall anything different?
BG: Then it should map to the same thing.
... It's almost like they're inheriting from Outline.
JS: [Reads about implemented IA2 interfaces]
... Yes, AX API only maps to AXTable for treegrid.
... I'll bring this back up next week.
<clown> action-1104?
<trackbot> action-1104 -- Cynthia Shelly to Define what the
accessibility API mapping is for UIA on aria-describedby in
section 5.5.1 table when the element does not exist in the
accessibility tree such as when css: display:none applies --
due 2014-11-18 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[16]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1104
[16] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1104
JS: I doubt that she's answered this either.
... This is needed by the new accessible name document.
... What do you do in UIA?
RS: Should we say what they should do?
JS: Everyone else grabs the text and puts the string in the
accessible description field.
... UIA has pointers. And there's nothing to point to due to
display:none.
... They have legacy description, but they don't want to do
that.
RS: I don't have an answer for you.
JS: Ok, I'll bring this up again next week.
ACTION-1311/ACTION-1444/ACTION-1445: (Joseph, Cynthia) Clarify that
presentation role should preserve separation of nodes within
tables/lists.
<clown> action-1311?
<trackbot> action-1311 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Clarify that
presentation role should preserve separation of nodes within
tables/lists; work out in UAIG 1.1 and with
implementors/vendors how to resolve this. -- due 2014-11-15 --
OPEN
<trackbot>
[17]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1311
[17] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1311
JS: I'm pretty much ready to take this one on.
... This was caused a long time ago, briefly, because Alex
smushed a presentational table into one giant text.
... He's since fixed that.
... There's been a request to add something to the mapping
stating not to smush things together.
... My question is, where does this go in the document?
<clown>
[18]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ma
pping_general
[18]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#mapping_general
JS: The first possibility is the above section of the document.
... [reads]
... We could add something there along the lines of "if
role='presentation' .... do not"
... The other place to put it is the role mapping for
presentation.
... What do you guys think?
<clown>
[19]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ro
le-map-presentation
[19]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-presentation
JD: Is this specific to tables and lists?
JS: It applies to anything with required descendants.
... We need to say what happens to them.
RS: A separate non-semantic entity.
JD: Would it make sense to put it under table and list, if
those really are the two things they apply to?
<clown>
[20]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#presentati
on
[20] http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#presentation
JS: There's a paragraph at the above URL. (About the 7th
paragraph down, not counting the editorial notes.)
... [Reads paragraph starting with "When an explicit or
inherited role of presentation is applied to an element with
the implicit semantic of a WAI-ARIA role that has required
owned elements, in addition to the element with the explicit
role of presentation, the user agent must apply an inherited
role of presentation to any owned elements that do not have an
explicit role defined."]
... I think I could put it in one spot and cover both tables
and lists in that one spot.
JD: My real point is put it where we think implementors are
likely to look.
[Discussion about the original smushing]
JS: [Reads from Alex's message]
... Where does it say you must not create an accessible object
for table with role="presentation"?
<clown>
[21]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ex
clude_elements2
[21]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#exclude_elements2
JS: It's just a guess but maybe in the above section?
... In which case, perhaps that is where you put this extra
information.
RS: So you want to add a new bullet point under 5.1.1?
JS: Or maybe a sub-bullet.
<clown> [22]https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=945435
[22] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=945435
[Discussion of the above issue]
<richardschwerdtfeger>
[23]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/svg-aam/svg-aam.html
[23] http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/svg-aam/svg-aam.html
[24]https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1013584
[24] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1013584
JD: Looking at comment 18, David removed "[ATK]" from the
summary which suggests that *maybe* in IA2, they are also now
mapped as if they were divs.
... But I don't know.
JS: Looking at the last patch, there's no more "text" roles.
... I need to look at this as a guide to the text I put in.
... I think I'm going to put this text in the initial part of
the mapping where it talks about role="presentation".
... Then I'll mark it as "pending review".
ACTION-1531/ISSUE-435: (David) investigate ia2 mapping of
role="text".
<clown> action-1531
<trackbot> action-1531 -- David Bolter to Bolter to investigate
ia2 mapping of role="text" -- due 2014-11-18 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[25]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1531
[25] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1531
JS: David's not done this yet. I'll bring it up next week.
Summary of Action Items
[End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 2 December 2014 21:45:53 UTC