- From: Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>
- Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 16:03:59 -0400
- To: "wai-xtech@w3.org" <wai-xtech@w3.org>
Link: http://www.w3.org/2014/08/26-aapi-minutes.html
Plain text follows:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
26 Aug 2014
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2014/08/26-aapi-irc
Attendees
Present
Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa,
Rich_Schwerdtfeger, +1.603.493.aaaa, +1.603.493.aabb,
Joseph_Scheuhammmer
Regrets
Cynthia_Shelly
Chair
Joseph_Scheuhammer
Scribe
joanie, clown, richardschwerdtfeger
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]ACTION-1199: (All) Browsers SHOULD note errors on
console for missing required attributes -- review
edits.
2. [5]ACTION-980: (David) Define mappings for managed
aria related states.
3. [6]ISSUE-514/ACTION-1341: (All) Spec says that
aria-required is propagated to descendants in
grid/treegrid. Verbiage needed in Core-AAM?
4. [7]ACTION-1396: (All) Role grid maps to table role in
AAPIs; need to also convey it is an interactive grid.
* [8]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 26 August 2014
<joanie> clown: both :)
<clown> agenda: this
<joanie> Scribenick: joanie
ACTION-1199: (All) Browsers SHOULD note errors on console for missing
required attributes -- review edits.
<clown> action-1199?
<trackbot> action-1199 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Draft UAIG
requirement (MAY in 1.0, SHOULD in 1.1?) for UAs to throw
errors in the console when required attributes are missing. --
due 2014-05-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[9]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1199
[9] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1199
JS: This is for David, who is not here.
... There is a statement in the author errors section of the
core mapping document:
<clown>
[10]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-imple
mentation.html#document-handling_author-errors
[10]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#document-handling_author-errors
JS: I know Cynthia is ok with this change.
... There is a sentence now that user agents SHOULD report
these errors by console. It used to be a MAY.
... I am now waiting for Mozilla to say yea or nay, and give me
a reason why if it is a nay.
RS: Why do we care about reporting errors in the console?
JS: The original request/discussion at a face-to-face 2 years
ago, maybe.
... The request was that the browser should make errors more
clear.
RS: There are system settings that drive things like show
sounds.
... If you have an alert, you can have it drive sounds.
JS: Clarifies that this is about authoring errors.
... But popping up an alert would impact end users.
... So the agreement was to have a MAY for console errors.
... But at the same meeting there was agreement to make it a
SHOULD for ARIA 1.1.
<clown> <span role="checkbox">…</span>
RS: Agrees emphatically that an alert would be inappropriate.
... Alert is NOT meant for validation.
JS: That is what we agreed at the face-to-face. And we
suggested as an alternative, how about the error console?
RS: I wouldn't even suggest that.
... If someone is writing a validator for accessible content,
these errors should be flagged in a console. The browser
doesn't have to do anything for that.
JS: Right, because you have a special tool.
RS: Jon Gunderson does the same thing in his validator tool.
JS: Personally, there is where I think this sort of thing
belongs.
RS: Agreed. Definitely.
... I think the entire statement should be removed (i.e. as
opposed to even being left as a MAY)
... If no one is going to do it, what is the point?
JS: Cynthia is ok with this change.
JD: I don't have a strong opinion as long as authors find their
errors.
RS: Yes, they can use (existing) tools to do this.
... To really make this work, a browser would need to build in
a full accessibility checker.
JS: At the moment, the browser is going to handle the error and
set the default value to False. So the browser is already
handling it.
... So to play devil's advocate, why not have the browser log
an error to console.
RS: I would take it out, but I don't have a strong opinion
either way.
<richardschwerdtfeger> Rich Proposal: Remove the text that
suggests that a browser may, should, or must notify the user
through console of missing required ARIA attributes.
<richardschwerdtfeger> +1
<clown> scribenick: clown
<bgaraventa1979> +1
+1
JS: I've added a note to remove the statement from the spec,
and reopend the action.
RS: I'll make a resolution.
<richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: remove the text pertaining
to console notification in action 1199
<joanie> +1
<scribe> scribenick: joanie
ACTION-980: (David) Define mappings for managed aria related states.
<clown> action-980?
<trackbot> action-980 -- David Bolter to Define mappings for
managed aria related states: aria-setsize, aria-posinset,
arla-level, focused, focusable with reference to section 5.5
bullet 1 of the UAIG. -- due 2014-08-22 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[11]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/980
[11] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/980
JS: David is not here. I wanted to get an update on how he is
progressing. It was due last week.
... Let's skip it until he is here.
... My proposal is... There's a link at the end of that
agendum.
RS: So predefined tokens. I don't see why that's a problem.
JS: The current mapping guide states just copy the unknown
value in.
... A better way to do it is just set it to False.
RS: I think that's probably correct.
JS: Plus UIA sets it to false.
RS: I think it's better to do that. Do we need to file any
defects against browsers?
JS: Probably do.
... James Craig said "looks good to me", so Apple seems to be
on board.
... I will make these changes then and mark the action as
pending review to given everyone one last chance to agree or
disagree.
ISSUE-514/ACTION-1341: (All) Spec says that aria-required is
propagated to descendants in grid/treegrid. Verbiage needed in
Core-AAM?
<clown> action-1341?
<trackbot> action-1341 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Patch
issue-514: treegrid and grid propagation requirement should be
normative. -- due 2014-01-30 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[12]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1341
[12] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1341
JS: This is something that James changed in the spec and then
assigned the action to me to see if anything needs to be
changed in the mapping document.
... (Reads what the spec now states re propagation)
... This is aria-readonly.
RS: So is just for the cells, or also the rows?
JS: Do rows have a read-only property?
RS: It doesn't have it here for inherited states and
properties.
... I don't see readonly on a grid cell. That's a bug.
<richardschwerdtfeger>
[13]http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-1.1/roles#gridcell
[13] http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-1.1/roles#gridcell
<clown>
[14]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/spec/aria.html#gridcell
[14] http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/spec/aria.html#gridcell
JS: It's in the editor's draft.
RS: I'm looking at ARIA 1.1 document.
JS: It's not there under row.
RS: So it's inherited down to the grid cells? And we say that
in the spec? Let's verify.
JS: Yes, it's in the grid role.
<clown> [15]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1341
[15] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1341
(Some discussion about the current wording)
JS: We can send it back to James Craig with our questions about
the wording.
<clown>
[16]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-imple
mentation.html#role-map-grid
[16]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#role-map-grid
JS: The above is the mapping of grid. Do we want to put
somewhere in there that if grid is readonly that propagates
down to the grid cells?
<richardschwerdtfeger> Rich Proposal: aria-readonly=“true” For
elements with role=“gridcell” and no aria-readonly property the
gridcell must inherit any author applied aria-readonly=“true”
property from the containing grid or treegrid.
<richardschwerdtfeger> +1
<clown> +1
<bgaraventa1979> +1
<richardschwerdtfeger> joanie verbally stated +1 due to
connectivity problems
<richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: Adopt Rich’s proposal in
action 1341
<richardschwerdtfeger> scribenick: richardschwerdtfeger
zakim takeup next item
ACTION-1396: (All) Role grid maps to table role in AAPIs; need to
also convey it is an interactive grid.
<clown> action-1396?
<trackbot> action-1396 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Modify uaig to
convey grid role in accessibility mappings, beyond table.
(atk/atspi/ ia2 xml-role=grid, macosx: roledescription: grid,
msaa/uiaexpress localizedcontroltype="grid"?) -- due 2014-08-26
-- OPEN
<trackbot>
[17]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1396
[17] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1396
<clown>
[18]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-imple
mentation.html#role-map-grid
[18]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#role-map-grid
<clown> action-1396?
<trackbot> action-1396 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Modify uaig to
convey grid role in accessibility mappings, beyond table.
(atk/atspi/ ia2 xml-role=grid, macosx: roledescription: grid,
msaa/uiaexpress localizedcontroltype="grid"?) -- due 2014-08-26
-- OPEN
<trackbot>
[19]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1396
[19] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1396
clown: The text of the action item says: “Modify uaig to convey
grid role in accessibility mappings, beyond table. (atk/atspi/
ia2 xml-role=grid, macosx: roledescription: grid,
msaa/uiaexpress localizedcontroltype="grid"?)"
rich: You should speak with cynthia
clown: a grid is like a spreadsheet. a table is like a time
table for a train
... tables allow cells to expand/collapse rows from a gridcell
... a table is static
rich: correct macox as James minuted that call but check with
Cynthia
Summary of Action Items
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
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Received on Tuesday, 26 August 2014 20:04:42 UTC