RE: ARIA semantics for secondary navigation

My conclusion from today's discussion: 

If "aria-labelledby" is not working in a given Browser/AT implementation
for referencing of hidden elements 
it can be considered as an Browser/AT implementation bug and has to be
filed to the respective bug bases.

- Stefan


-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Gunderson [mailto:jongund@illinois.edu] 
Sent: Mittwoch, 20. Mai 2009 15:56
To: Simon Pieters; James Craig; Schnabel, Stefan
Cc: Victor Tsaran; Ryan Doherty; wai-xtech@w3.org
Subject: Re: ARIA semantics for secondary navigation

If you look at this example page there are many hidden labels for
navigation bars.

Using HTML best practices techniques:
http://courses.cita.illinois.edu/ud2day/examples/career-redesign.html

see iCITA Best Practices:
http://html.cita.uiuc.edu

Using ARIA:
http://test.cita.illinois.edu/aria/nav/nav1.php

Jon


---- Original message ----
>Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 10:46:41 +0200
>From: "Simon Pieters" <simonp@opera.com>  
>Subject: Re: ARIA semantics for secondary navigation  
>To: "James Craig" <jcraig@apple.com>, "Schnabel, Stefan"
<stefan.schnabel@sap.com>
>Cc: "Victor Tsaran" <vtsaran@yahoo-inc.com>, "Ryan Doherty"
<rdoherty@mozilla.com>, wai-xtech@w3.org
>
>On Wed, 20 May 2009 09:40:30 +0200, James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>
wrote:
>
>> On May 19, 2009, at 11:44 PM, Schnabel, Stefan wrote:
>>
>>> I want to ask an heretic question:
>>>
>>> Who says that a text node referenced by "aria-labelledby"
MUST/SHALL/HAS
>>> TO be visible?
>>
>>
>> No one, but there isn't much point in using aria-labelledby if you're

>> gonna hide the label.
>
>I can think of a couple:
>
>  * If the element is a heading element, the heading would still be
part of
>    the document outline and thus help people who navigate the document
by
>    headings instead of by landmarks.
>  * For users who don't use software that exposes the ARIA information
and
>    also doesn't apply CSS (e.g. Lynx), the label would be just as
useful
>    as for those to whom the ARIA information is exposed.
>  * Search engines who don't look at ARIA markup would still get the
label.
>
>
>> In that case, it'd be easier to use aria-label or  
>> @title.
>>
>>  From the spec:
>> If the label text is visible on screen, authors SHOULD use aria- 
>> labelledby and SHOULD NOT use aria-label. Use aria-label only if the

>> interface is such that it is not possible to have a visible label on
the  
>> screen.
>
>I disagree that the visibility should be considered. I would encourage
to always use aria-labelledby and, if the label should be hidden form
visual users, it should be hidden with CSS.
>
>
>> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/#aria-label
>> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/#aria-labelledby
>
>-- 
>Simon Pieters
>Opera Software
>
Jon Gunderson, Ph.D.
Coordinator Information Technology Accessibility
Disability Resources and Educational Services

Rehabilitation Education Center
Room 86
1207 S. Oak Street
Champaign, Illinois 61821

Voice: (217) 244-5870

WWW: http://www.cita.uiuc.edu/
WWW: https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jongund/www/

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Received on Wednesday, 20 May 2009 14:08:28 UTC