RE: ARIA semantics for secondary navigation


Thanks. Which  brings us to the discussion "acceptance of title
attribute" by AT.

Has, in your opinion, the support for @title improved so much that the
title solution can be
recommended? At least, I know one actual use case where relying on title
alone will miserably fail.

Besides of this, there is an older Paciello Group evaluation out:
(read 3rd conclusion)

Has this changed?

And second, what is a VERY good example to use aria-label?

- Stefan

-----Original Message-----
From: Sailesh Panchang [] 
Sent: Mittwoch, 20. Mai 2009 15:32
To: Schnabel, Stefan; 'James Craig'
Cc: 'Victor Tsaran'; 'Ryan Doherty';
Subject: RE: ARIA semantics for secondary navigation

This is seen quite often where labels are in one column and input fields
the next. Visual rendering may be fine and sighted users have no
associating labels with  the fields.
For AT users, a simple title attribute on the input elements will do the
work. 'Date' for the first one and 'Time' for the next. No label
is needed here. No ARIA markup is needed. Screen readers work reliably
this technique in old and latest browsers.  
Sailesh Panchang
Accessibility Services Manager (Web and Software)
Deque Systems Inc. (
11130 Sunrise Valley Drive, Suite #140,
Reston VA 20191
Phone: 703-225-0380 (ext 105)
-----Original Message-----
From: [] On
Of Schnabel, Stefan
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 4:13 AM
To: James Craig
Cc: Victor Tsaran; Ryan Doherty;
Subject: RE: ARIA semantics for secondary navigation

Many thanks for the quick answer. 

Suppose we have the following:

Date/Time: [ ] [ ]

Where [ ] means an INPUT type=text and "Date/Time:" is a label element.

Should the second [ ] been labeled with 

1) aria-label = "Time" OR @title = "Time" 
2) aria-label = "Time" AND @title = "Time"
3) neither aria-label nor @title because semantics are clear from label
4) How should be the first [ ] labeled? 
	a) Using @for like in HTML4 and associate Label element
	b) Using similar approach of 1) - 3) replacing "Time" with
	c) Put a <div> container around [ ] [ ] and 
		a. label div with "Date/Time:" using aria-labelledby
		b. label the [ ] individually as described above

Best Regards

-----Original Message-----
From: James Craig [] 
Sent: Mittwoch, 20. Mai 2009 09:41
To: Schnabel, Stefan
Cc: Victor Tsaran; Ryan Doherty;
Subject: RE: ARIA semantics for secondary navigation

On May 19, 2009, at 11:44 PM, Schnabel, Stefan wrote:

> I want to ask an heretic question:
> Who says that a text node referenced by "aria-labelledby" MUST/SHALL/ 
> TO be visible?

No one, but there isn't much point in using aria-labelledby if you're  
gonna hide the label. In that case, it'd be easier to use aria-label  
or @title.

 From the spec:
If the label text is visible on screen, authors SHOULD use aria- 
labelledby and SHOULD NOT use aria-label. Use aria-label only if the  
interface is such that it is not possible to have a visible label on  
the screen.

Received on Wednesday, 20 May 2009 13:53:09 UTC