- From: Elliotte Harold <elharo@metalab.unc.edu>
- Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 07:00:23 -0700
- To: Al Gilman <Alfred.S.Gilman@IEEE.org>
- Cc: "Henry S.Thompson" <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk>, "www-tag@w3.org List" <www-tag@w3.org>, "public-html@w3.org WG" <public-html@w3.org>, "public-xhtml2@w3.org WG" <public-xhtml2@w3.org>, "wai-xtech@w3.org WAI-XTECH" <wai-xtech@w3.org>
Al Gilman wrote: > WAI-ARIA could have ridden on namespaces, and *would have* if > namespaces were ready for prime time. But they're not. > OK. Seems you are rejecting namespaces in toto because you don't like them. I'm not sure you're wrong about that. Namespaces are a poorly thought out mess. However they do work in practice, and the biggest problems today seem to come about when people either don't support them (e.g. Java's SAXParser) or assume they work in ways other than they actually do (DOM). That the W3C has made some pointless, backwards incompatible changes to namespaces without properly marking those changes doesn't help either. You should be aware that if namespaces are not ready for primetime now, they never will be. There is *NO* effort whatsoever to improve the situation for namespaces in any significant way. The syntax will not change in XML's lifetime. There is no improvement on the horizon that would satisfy you. The decision, therefore, comes down to this: how much does following the web architecture matter? Are the benefits of using namespaces more than the very real costs they impose on ARIA users and others? It might be time to start tallying up the costs and benefits of this proposal. Off the top of my head the benefits are primarily in user interface. It's easier for authors and developers to handle aria- than aria:. On the other side, there is also a negative user interface effect of using aria- for developers. Developers consistently misidentify the namespace of unprefixed attributes. If you go with aria-, I can promise you that there will be bugs when developers assume aria- is in the namespace of the parent element or the default namespace. On the other hand, if you go with aria: there will still be bugs caused by developer confusion, just different ones. So for developers, it's probably a wash. The real benefit is to people hand-authoring documents that use ARIA. Since you want to put these attributes in HTML, there are a significant number of people who will do this. aria- makes their jobs somewhat easier. The costs to aria- are primarily in lost support by various tools. The primary such tool are schemas. aria: is much easier to integrate in than aria- because you can write separate schemas for separate namespaces. You also lose support in XQuery, XSLT 2, and XPath 2. In these increasingly important languages, it is relatively easy to dispatch or search based on the namespace of an attribute or element, and relatively hard to dispatch or search based on the first part of a local name. it's not impossible, mind you, but it is more complex. There's also a cost on authors who don't want to use ARIA. They can no longer user aria- to name their attributes. Probably a small cost, but a cost nonetheless. The Web allows you to reserve URIs for your choice of use, but not names. There is no guarantee that any aria- names will be unique, nor will you ever be given such a guarantee. The chance of collision is small, but non-zero. If there is a collision, it's your problem. Are there any costs or benefits I'm missing here? -- Elliotte Rusty Harold elharo@metalab.unc.edu Java I/O 2nd Edition Just Published! http://www.cafeaulait.org/books/javaio2/ http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0596527500/ref=nosim/cafeaulaitA/
Received on Friday, 30 May 2008 14:01:03 UTC