- From: Schnabel, Stefan <stefan.schnabel@sap.com>
- Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 14:19:49 +0200
- To: "David Poehlman" <david.poehlman@handsontechnologeyes.com>, "Evans, Donald" <Donald.Evans@corp.aol.com>, <wai-xtech@w3.org>
- Cc: "Keim, Oliver" <oliver.keim@sap.com>
The verbosity configuration of additional info like row and col count of grids and number of disabled items in menus should been left to AT implementations of ARIA (my opinion). As for best keyboard practices, best to have is a "best verbosity practices" site for the AT ARIA implementations. Maybe already underway? Regards Stefan -----Original Message----- From: David Poehlman [mailto:david.poehlman@handsontechnologeyes.com] Sent: Mittwoch, 14. Mai 2008 14:10 To: Schnabel, Stefan; Evans, Donald; wai-xtech@w3.org Cc: Keim, Oliver Subject: Re: Recommendation for Disabled Items maybe then I can set this pref in the browser? In some instances I can think of, it would produce a lot of verbage. maybe I already know that a certain construct is entirely disabled or how many disabled items it has in it? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Schnabel, Stefan" <stefan.schnabel@sap.com> To: "Evans, Donald" <Donald.Evans@corp.aol.com>; <wai-xtech@w3.org> Cc: "Keim, Oliver" <oliver.keim@sap.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 3:57 AM Subject: RE: Recommendation for Disabled Items Hi all, please find my comments below in Don's mail. Best Regards, Stefan Dr. Stefan Schnabel Accessibility Expert User Experience - Accessibility SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16, 69190 Walldorf, Germany T: +49 (6227) 7-65652 F: +49 (6227) 78-29877 mailto:stefan.schnabel@sap.com <mailto:stefan.schnabel@sap.com> W: www.sap.com; http://www.sapdesignguild.org <http://www.sapdesignguild.org/> From: wai-xtech-request@w3.org [mailto:wai-xtech-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Evans, Donald Sent: Dienstag, 13. Mai 2008 21:17 To: wai-xtech@w3.org Subject: Recommendation for Disabled Items 1. * The PFWG has asked the DHTML Style guide to make a recommendation about keyboard access with respect to disabled items. We have discussed it, but have not come to consensus. Below you will find the current recommendation. Please feel free to add your comments. Use case: A locked spread sheet. A disabled item on a menu. A read-only or disabled property in ARIA. * Accessible information must be perceivable, navigable and usable. In the case of disabled information, by definition it is not usable, but never-the-less must be perceivable and navigable. I fully agree. * For information to be perceivable it should be announced as you enter a widget. In the case of a menu with disabled menu items, it might announce, "Menu with 5 items. 3 are disabled.". We do announce disabled items, but we don't announce explicitly the number of disabled items on entry, I think this is a little bit overdone. In the case of a disabled spread sheet, it might announce "Grid with 15 read only cells". If the entire sheet is disabled, it should be announced as such, with given row/col count (not cells, this number may become laaarge), e.g.: Grid with 10 rows and 5 columns - Read-Only * For information to be navigable, you must be able navigate to it and have it read with a screen reader. This does not necessarily mean that focus needs to move there with the tab key.but it does mean that you should be able to navigate to it with some set of key strokes. In the case of a menu, you tab into the widget and tab out of the widget. Once in the widget, the arrow keys take over for navigation. I fully agree. In some cases yes (lists, menus and read-only grid navigation), in others no (forms). Have to be very precise here what to navigate how. The arrow keys should move to all menu items even the ones that are disabled. Yes. Very important. The same principle holds true for the grid example. * Allowing navigation to the disabled content could be implemented as a user preference in the AT. User preference of navigation to the disabled content we consider as a good idea, too, but we don't want AT to handle that. This sounds to us that AT should do the Keyboard navigation, and we don't think that this is justified for ARIA role=application at all. Instead JS libraries and User Agents should support this and AT should not hinder that at all. Resist the temptation to believe/demand that AT should handle keyboard navigation specialties. If so, you rely one day on some specific AT vendor because your disabled controls will be in the tab chain only with product XYZ. This is a dead-end street !!! Donald F. Evans Sr. Program Manager, Office of Accessibility, AOL LLC AIM: donaldfevans Phone 703.265.5952
Received on Wednesday, 14 May 2008 12:20:47 UTC