- From: Jim Jewett <jimjjewett@gmail.com>
- Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 16:02:11 -0400
- To: hsivonen@iki.fi, "HTML WG" <public-html@w3.org>
- Cc: Alfred.S.Gilman@IEEE.org, "Julian Reschke" <julian.reschke@gmx.de>, "James Graham" <jg307@cam.ac.uk>, "Steven Faulkner" <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>, "Ian Hickson" <ian@hixie.ch>, "John Foliot" <foliot@wats.ca>, HTML4All <list@html4all.org>, "W3C WAI-XTECH" <wai-xtech@w3.org>
Henri Sivonen wrote: > I'm curious why accessibility advocates > want to bake some of that into the notion of > conformance on the axis of machine-checkable > HTML5 syntax instead of promoting conformance > on the accessibility evaluation axis on its own right. > So far, I've come up with two possible explanations: > 1) It's about assuming that a notion of "Valid HTML5" > is more appealing/marketable than a notion of > "A[A][A] level conformance to WCAG 2.0". This is certainly true. It is always easier to sell "Do X correctly" than "Do X correctly while also doing Y". For X==HTML, "Do X correctly"=="Write Valid HTML", and any addon (whether it be accessibility or house style) is harder to remember and enforce. > ... wouldn't it mean that there'd be people > who'd seek to satisfy a validator without > necessarily doing good to accessibility This relates to a third reason -- that things which can be checked automatically are much easier to enforce, and therefore much likelier to happen. But yes, it is a problem, and we do have to weigh the benefit of easier enforcement against the detriment of more loophole-using. > 2) The notion that a document could be deemed > "correct" on *some* evaluation axis without *also* > being accessible is somehow offensive. Close. No one would object to a claim that Headings were used in a correct manner, even if a document weren't fully accessible. But Validity is (in practice) treated as *complete* correctness, because it includes everything that can be easily and automatically checked. Leaving out accessibility is worse than invalid nesting -- it just isn't as easy to check. So making it even harder to check seems like a step backwards. Note that by this reasoning, it would be OK to leave it out of an image in a figure *if* the caption were defined to provide that information in the absence of an alt, because that would still be machine-checkable. > I think it isn't productive to deny non-accessibility > evaluation axes to use cases that aren't accessible Agreed -- so long as it is clear that only some axes are being evaluated. Thus the suggestion of "This page is valid HTML5 except ..." > Validator.nu gives the alt issue more prominence > than HTML 4 validators ever have. Agreed. Though I might prefer a slight tweak. Coming after "Be lax about ..." "Disrespect..." makes it seem like a bad thing. Perhaps change to X Be strict about HTTP Content-Type title=Respect MIME RFCs X Show Image Report title=Run accessibilty check on textual alternatives to images Show Source ... > ... HTML 5 shouldn't *require* HTML5 > validators to have particular additional features in > addition to the HTML 5 validation function Agreed. But ideally, accessibility would become more checkable, rather than less so. I would therefore have less of a problem saying that validators which don't do this must indicate the limitation when (and if) they report Validity. For example, instead of saying: "This document is Valid HTML", they could only say "This document is Valid HTML with the possible exception of features which this tool did not check. Unchecked Features include: ... " and a requirement that alt usage be listed in the exceptions. The list should of course include other features that are also hard to fully check, but might reasonably be limited to those where there is at least demonstrated Good Practice among validators -- and alt usage now qualifies. -jJ
Received on Sunday, 4 May 2008 20:28:06 UTC