- From: David Poehlman <poehlman1@comcast.net>
- Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 07:03:00 -0500
- To: "Schnabel, Stefan" <stefan.schnabel@sap.com>, "Jon Gunderson" <jongund@uiuc.edu>, "Aaron M Leventhal" <aleventh@us.ibm.com>, "David Bolter" <david.bolter@utoronto.ca>
- Cc: "Becky Gibson" <Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com>, <Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com>, <wai-xtech@w3.org>, <wai-xtech-request@w3.org>
and perhaps we should also add true or false. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Schnabel, Stefan" <stefan.schnabel@sap.com> To: "Jon Gunderson" <jongund@uiuc.edu>; "Aaron M Leventhal" <aleventh@us.ibm.com>; "David Bolter" <david.bolter@utoronto.ca> Cc: "Becky Gibson" <Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com>; <Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com>; <wai-xtech@w3.org>; <wai-xtech-request@w3.org> Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:37 AM Subject: RE: closing a Tab? Sortable IS a criterion, even for the curmudgeon .. think of table columns :) Context menu is always a good idea. But I think this discussion is not so much about how-to-trigger, it is more about the initial info that a Tab CAN be closed if user wants so and how to announce that on focus and IF that should be announced. - Stefan -----Original Message----- From: Jon Gunderson [mailto:jongund@uiuc.edu] Sent: Dienstag, 4. März 2008 00:10 To: Aaron M Leventhal; David Bolter Cc: Becky Gibson; Schnabel, Stefan; Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com; wai-xtech@w3.org; wai-xtech-request@w3.org Subject: Re: closing a Tab? I agree with Aaron if we can do it with a context menu it will be much more consistent to the user. Jon ---- Original message ---- >Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 11:46:36 -0500 >From: Aaron M Leventhal <aleventh@us.ibm.com> >Subject: Re: closing a Tab? >To: David Bolter <david.bolter@utoronto.ca> >Cc: Becky Gibson <Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com>, Jon Gunderson ><jongund@uiuc.edu>, "Schnabel, Stefan" <stefan.schnabel@sap.com>, >Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com, wai-xtech@w3.org, wai-xtech-request@w3.org > > Sorry to be a curmudgeon, but closeable seems a bit > odd to me. How about saveable, reloadable and > sortable, etc.? > > Aren't these all just context menu items? Why is one > more special than the rest? And closeable is not > supported by ATs or known by users. > > - Aaron > >David Bolter To "Schnabel, Stefan" ><david.bolter@utoronto.ca> <stefan.schnabel@sap.com> >Sent by: cc Jon Gunderson >wai-xtech-request@w3.org <jongund@uiuc.edu>, > Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com, >03/03/2008 11:31 AM Becky Gibson > <Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com>, > wai-xtech@w3.org > Subject Re: closing a Tab? > > > An aria-closable seems reasonable. I can't remember > past discussions > about this and why it might not have been > included... ? > > D > Schnabel, Stefan wrote: > > Agree. So do we need a aria-closable property? Or > can we use any of the existing aria properties for > that? > > > > Stefan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jon Gunderson [mailto:jongund@uiuc.edu] > > Sent: Montag, 3. März 2008 15:33 > > To: Schnabel, Stefan; Wlodkowski, Thomas; Becky > Gibson; wai-xtech@w3.org > > Subject: RE: closing a Tab? > > > > We need to have some awareness of the closability > to a tab, like a popup context menu. I am not sure > a tooltip is the best way to do this. > > > > Jon > > > > > > ---- Original message ---- > > > >> Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 09:58:31 +0100 > >> From: "Schnabel, Stefan" > <stefan.schnabel@sap.com> > >> Subject: RE: closing a Tab? > >> To: "Wlodkowski, Thomas" > <Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com>, "Jon Gunderson" > <jongund@uiuc.edu>, "Becky Gibson" > <Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com>, <wai-xtech@w3.org> > >> > >> Tom, > >> > >> That's why we're doing Best Practices, don't we? > >> > >> Think of FireFox. Having 10 Tabs open and arrow > keying with additional > >> focusing of the closing cross icon will result in > a keyhitcount of 18 to > >> navigate the tabs instead of 9. > >> > >> And don't tell me Firefox isn't a good example :) > (just kidding) > >> > >> So currently we solve the issue for Tabs in our > Web Dynpro frameworks > >> with memorizing special keys in the tab tooltip > in cases where it does > >> make sense. > >> > >> - Stefan > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Wlodkowski, Thomas > [mailto:Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com] > >> Sent: Freitag, 29. Februar 2008 18:25 > >> To: Schnabel, Stefan; Jon Gunderson; Becky > Gibson; wai-xtech@w3.org > >> Subject: RE: closing a Tab? > >> > >> I also think the icon attached to the tab or in > the tab order may also > >> be helpful. We need to consider cognitive load > when talking about > >> keyboard shortcuts. Too many web and software > apps to track/memorize. > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: wai-xtech-request@w3.org > [mailto:wai-xtech-request@w3.org] On > >> Behalf Of Schnabel, Stefan > >> Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 11:54 AM > >> To: Jon Gunderson; Becky Gibson; wai-xtech@w3.org > >> Subject: RE: closing a Tab? > >> > >> > >> Jon, > >> > >> better to have a standardized hotkey for closing > tab. As a concept we > >> tend to keep tab chains short. > >> > >> Regards > >> Stefan > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: wai-xtech-request@w3.org > [mailto:wai-xtech-request@w3.org] On > >> Behalf Of Jon Gunderson > >> Sent: Freitag, 29. Februar 2008 17:32 > >> To: Becky Gibson; wai-xtech@w3.org > >> Subject: Re: closing a Tab? > >> > >> > >> Why can't the close icon be in tab order and the > icon can also be part > >> of the label for the tab. > >> > >> Jon > >> > >> > >> ---- Original message ---- > >> > >>> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:35:21 -0500 > >>> From: "Becky Gibson" > <Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com> > >>> Subject: Re: closing a Tab? > >>> To: wai-xtech@w3.org > >>> > >>> > >>> I implemented a context menu for closable tabs > in the dojo tab > >>> > >> container. > >> > >>> See the second tab panel example on [1]. The > tabs with title "first" > >>> > >> and > >> > >>> "third" are closable. Pressing shift-F10 with > focus on these tabs will > >>> bring up a context menu with "close". If a tab > is closable, pressing > >>> > >> the > >> > >>> delete key with focus on the title will delete > the tab. I thought this > >>> > >> is > >> > >>> what the style guide group had decided upon? > Although it would be nice > >>> > >> if > >> > >>> there was a way to indicate to the screen reader > user that a tab (or > >>> > >> any > >> > >>> other item) was deletable without having the use > the shift-F10 > >>> > >> discovery > >> > >>> mechanism. > >>> > >>> I based my implementation decision on the DHTML > Style Guide June 29, > >>> > >> 2007 > >> > >>> meeting minutes [2]: > >>> TW: options other than DELETE - CTRL+F4 a > possibility, have > >>> to get comments on that - what we are saying is > context menu and > >>> > >> keyboard > >> > >>> shortcut combo fine - great if had property so > didn't have to use > >>> > >> context > >> > >>> menu, but maybe that's phase 2 > >>> So perhaps we made a decision but just didn't > record it in the style > >>> guide? > >>> [1] > >>> > http://archive.dojotoolkit.org/nightly/dojotoolkit/dijit/tests/layout/t > >>> > >> est_TabContainer.html > >> > >>> [2] > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2007Jun/0130.html > >>> > >>> Becky Gibson > >>> Web Accessibility Architect > >>> > > >>> IBM Emerging Internet Technologies > >>> 5 Technology Park Drive > >>> Westford, MA 01886 > >>> Voice: 978 399-6101; t/l 333-6101 > >>> Email: gibsonb@us.ibm.com > >>> blog: WebA11y > >>> > >>> > >>> wai-xtech-request@w3.org wrote on 02/28/2008 > 03:06:06 PM: > >>> > >>> > >>>> In the Best Practices we have a dangling > question: > >>>> > >>>> <quote > >>>> > cite="http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/#TabPanel"> > >>>> > >>>> Unresolved at time of port from DHTML wiki: How > to indicate that a > >>>> tab panel can be deleted? Visually a close icon > can be provided in > >>>> the upper right hand corner of the tab which > the user can click on to > >>>> > >>>> delete the tab panel. Putting this close icon > in the navigation > >>>> sequence would make extra navigation. Is there > some way to indicate > >>>> to a non-visual user that a tab panel can be > deleted with a defined > >>>> keystroke? Perhaps we can capture ctrl-w (the > key used in Firefox and > >>>> > >>>> IE 7) to close a tab? T * here is still the > issue of the user knowing > >>>> > >>>> that the tab is closable or not. Another option > is to provide a > >>>> context menu. With focus on the tab title the > user would press shift- > >>>> > >>>> F10 to invoke a context menu - the context menu > would have the close > >>>> option. In both of these cases if the tab can > not be closed, it still > >>>> > >>>> needs to capture the keystroke so that it > doesn't get bubbled up and > >>>> handled by the browser. Retrieved from > "http://www.weba11y.com/ > >>>> styleguide/index.php?title=Tab_Panel" > >>>> > >>>> </quote> > >>>> > >>>> Don, > >>>> > >>>> Could you get this on the agenda for the Style > >>>> Guide Group to suggest a preferred user > experience? > >>>> > >>>> Al > >>>> > >>>> /satisfying ACTION-101 > >>>> > >>>> PS: I didn't immediately find an answer at > >>>> http://dev.aol.com/dhtml_style_guide#tabpanel > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> Jon Gunderson, Ph.D. > >> Coordinator Information Technology Accessibility > >> Disability Resources and Educational Services > >> > >> Rehabilitation Education Center > >> Room 86 > >> 1207 S. Oak Street > >> Champaign, Illinois 61821 > >> > >> Voice: (217) 244-5870 > >> > >> WWW: http://www.cita.uiuc.edu/ > >> WWW: https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jongund/www/ > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Jon Gunderson, Ph.D. > > Coordinator Information Technology Accessibility > > Disability Resources and Educational Services > > > > Rehabilitation Education Center > > Room 86 > > 1207 S. Oak Street > > Champaign, Illinois 61821 > > > > Voice: (217) 244-5870 > > > > WWW: http://www.cita.uiuc.edu/ > > WWW: https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jongund/www/ > > > > > > > > Jon Gunderson, Ph.D. Coordinator Information Technology Accessibility Disability Resources and Educational Services Rehabilitation Education Center Room 86 1207 S. Oak Street Champaign, Illinois 61821 Voice: (217) 244-5870 WWW: http://www.cita.uiuc.edu/ WWW: https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jongund/www/
Received on Tuesday, 4 March 2008 12:03:43 UTC