- From: David Bolter <david.bolter@utoronto.ca>
- Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 11:59:30 -0500
- To: Aaron M Leventhal <aleventh@us.ibm.com>
- CC: Becky Gibson <Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com>, Jon Gunderson <jongund@uiuc.edu>, "Schnabel, Stefan" <stefan.schnabel@sap.com>, Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com, wai-xtech@w3.org, wai-xtech-request@w3.org
I see, so "haspopup" would be a kind of a catch all. I suspect for tabs, users might habituate that haspopup probably means closeable 99% of the time and they could try the keystroke. That said, it seems a little unfair that the visual user has the affordance of a close box, and the non-visual user gets a haspopup. But then, perhaps with, like you mention, things like reloadable and sortable, the indirection of a menu might be a welcome noise reduction? cheers, David Aaron M Leventhal wrote: > > Sorry to be a curmudgeon, but closeable seems a bit odd to me. How > about saveable, reloadable and sortable, etc.? > > Aren't these all just context menu items? Why is one more special than > the rest? And closeable is not supported by ATs or known by users. > > - Aaron > > > > *David Bolter <david.bolter@utoronto.ca>* > Sent by: wai-xtech-request@w3.org > > 03/03/2008 11:31 AM > > > To > "Schnabel, Stefan" <stefan.schnabel@sap.com> > cc > Jon Gunderson <jongund@uiuc.edu>, Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com, > Becky Gibson <Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com>, wai-xtech@w3.org > Subject > Re: closing a Tab? > > > > > > > > > > > An aria-closable seems reasonable. I can't remember past discussions > about this and why it might not have been included... ? > > D > Schnabel, Stefan wrote: > > Agree. So do we need a aria-closable property? Or can we use any of > the existing aria properties for that? > > > > Stefan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jon Gunderson [mailto:jongund@uiuc.edu] > > Sent: Montag, 3. März 2008 15:33 > > To: Schnabel, Stefan; Wlodkowski, Thomas; Becky Gibson; wai-xtech@w3.org > > Subject: RE: closing a Tab? > > > > We need to have some awareness of the closability to a tab, like a > popup context menu. I am not sure a tooltip is the best way to do this. > > > > Jon > > > > > > ---- Original message ---- > > > >> Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 09:58:31 +0100 > >> From: "Schnabel, Stefan" <stefan.schnabel@sap.com> > >> Subject: RE: closing a Tab? > >> To: "Wlodkowski, Thomas" <Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com>, "Jon > Gunderson" <jongund@uiuc.edu>, "Becky Gibson" > <Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com>, <wai-xtech@w3.org> > >> > >> Tom, > >> > >> That's why we're doing Best Practices, don't we? > >> > >> Think of FireFox. Having 10 Tabs open and arrow keying with additional > >> focusing of the closing cross icon will result in a keyhitcount of > 18 to > >> navigate the tabs instead of 9. > >> > >> And don't tell me Firefox isn't a good example :) (just kidding) > >> > >> So currently we solve the issue for Tabs in our Web Dynpro frameworks > >> with memorizing special keys in the tab tooltip in cases where it does > >> make sense. > >> > >> - Stefan > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Wlodkowski, Thomas [mailto:Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com] > >> Sent: Freitag, 29. Februar 2008 18:25 > >> To: Schnabel, Stefan; Jon Gunderson; Becky Gibson; wai-xtech@w3.org > >> Subject: RE: closing a Tab? > >> > >> I also think the icon attached to the tab or in the tab order may also > >> be helpful. We need to consider cognitive load when talking about > >> keyboard shortcuts. Too many web and software apps to track/memorize. > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: wai-xtech-request@w3.org [mailto:wai-xtech-request@w3.org] On > >> Behalf Of Schnabel, Stefan > >> Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 11:54 AM > >> To: Jon Gunderson; Becky Gibson; wai-xtech@w3.org > >> Subject: RE: closing a Tab? > >> > >> > >> Jon, > >> > >> better to have a standardized hotkey for closing tab. As a concept we > >> tend to keep tab chains short. > >> > >> Regards > >> Stefan > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: wai-xtech-request@w3.org [mailto:wai-xtech-request@w3.org] On > >> Behalf Of Jon Gunderson > >> Sent: Freitag, 29. Februar 2008 17:32 > >> To: Becky Gibson; wai-xtech@w3.org > >> Subject: Re: closing a Tab? > >> > >> > >> Why can't the close icon be in tab order and the icon can also be part > >> of the label for the tab. > >> > >> Jon > >> > >> > >> ---- Original message ---- > >> > >>> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:35:21 -0500 > >>> From: "Becky Gibson" <Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com> > >>> Subject: Re: closing a Tab? > >>> To: wai-xtech@w3.org > >>> > >>> > >>> I implemented a context menu for closable tabs in the dojo tab > >>> > >> container. > >> > >>> See the second tab panel example on [1]. The tabs with title "first" > >>> > >> and > >> > >>> "third" are closable. Pressing shift-F10 with focus on these tabs > will > >>> bring up a context menu with "close". If a tab is closable, pressing > >>> > >> the > >> > >>> delete key with focus on the title will delete the tab. I thought > this > >>> > >> is > >> > >>> what the style guide group had decided upon? Although it would be > nice > >>> > >> if > >> > >>> there was a way to indicate to the screen reader user that a tab (or > >>> > >> any > >> > >>> other item) was deletable without having the use the shift-F10 > >>> > >> discovery > >> > >>> mechanism. > >>> > >>> I based my implementation decision on the DHTML Style Guide June 29, > >>> > >> 2007 > >> > >>> meeting minutes [2]: > >>> TW: options other than DELETE - CTRL+F4 a possibility, have > >>> to get comments on that - what we are saying is context menu and > >>> > >> keyboard > >> > >>> shortcut combo fine - great if had property so didn't have to use > >>> > >> context > >> > >>> menu, but maybe that's phase 2 > >>> So perhaps we made a decision but just didn't record it in the style > >>> guide? > >>> [1] > >>> > http://archive.dojotoolkit.org/nightly/dojotoolkit/dijit/tests/layout/t > >>> > >> est_TabContainer.html > >> > >>> [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2007Jun/0130.html > >>> > >>> Becky Gibson > >>> Web Accessibility Architect > >>> > >>> IBM Emerging Internet Technologies > >>> 5 Technology Park Drive > >>> Westford, MA 01886 > >>> Voice: 978 399-6101; t/l 333-6101 > >>> Email: gibsonb@us.ibm.com > >>> blog: WebA11y > >>> > >>> > >>> wai-xtech-request@w3.org wrote on 02/28/2008 03:06:06 PM: > >>> > >>> > >>>> In the Best Practices we have a dangling question: > >>>> > >>>> <quote > >>>> cite="http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/#TabPanel"> > >>>> > >>>> Unresolved at time of port from DHTML wiki: How to indicate that a > >>>> tab panel can be deleted? Visually a close icon can be provided in > >>>> the upper right hand corner of the tab which the user can click on to > >>>> > >>>> delete the tab panel. Putting this close icon in the navigation > >>>> sequence would make extra navigation. Is there some way to indicate > >>>> to a non-visual user that a tab panel can be deleted with a defined > >>>> keystroke? Perhaps we can capture ctrl-w (the key used in Firefox and > >>>> > >>>> IE 7) to close a tab? T * here is still the issue of the user knowing > >>>> > >>>> that the tab is closable or not. Another option is to provide a > >>>> context menu. With focus on the tab title the user would press shift- > >>>> > >>>> F10 to invoke a context menu - the context menu would have the close > >>>> option. In both of these cases if the tab can not be closed, it still > >>>> > >>>> needs to capture the keystroke so that it doesn't get bubbled up and > >>>> handled by the browser. Retrieved from "http://www.weba11y.com/ > >>>> styleguide/index.php?title=Tab_Panel" > >>>> > >>>> </quote> > >>>> > >>>> Don, > >>>> > >>>> Could you get this on the agenda for the Style > >>>> Guide Group to suggest a preferred user experience? > >>>> > >>>> Al > >>>> > >>>> /satisfying ACTION-101 > >>>> > >>>> PS: I didn't immediately find an answer at > >>>> http://dev.aol.com/dhtml_style_guide#tabpanel > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> Jon Gunderson, Ph.D. > >> Coordinator Information Technology Accessibility > >> Disability Resources and Educational Services > >> > >> Rehabilitation Education Center > >> Room 86 > >> 1207 S. Oak Street > >> Champaign, Illinois 61821 > >> > >> Voice: (217) 244-5870 > >> > >> WWW: http://www.cita.uiuc.edu/ > >> WWW: https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jongund/www/ > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Jon Gunderson, Ph.D. > > Coordinator Information Technology Accessibility > > Disability Resources and Educational Services > > > > Rehabilitation Education Center > > Room 86 > > 1207 S. Oak Street > > Champaign, Illinois 61821 > > > > Voice: (217) 244-5870 > > > > WWW: http://www.cita.uiuc.edu/ > > WWW: https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jongund/www/ > > > > > > > > > > >
Received on Monday, 3 March 2008 16:59:52 UTC