- From: Christophe Strobbe <christophe.strobbe@esat.kuleuven.be>
- Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 18:24:14 +0200
- To: <wai-xtech@w3.org>
Hi, At 18:06 23/10/2007, Gregory J. Rosmaita wrote: >aloha! > >i would like to cite a specific example, which has been cited by the >co-editor of the HTML5 editor's draft, to illustrate the problem... > >(...) >quote >There is an example of a part of a classical poem in the <img> element >section (search for "On either side the river lie"). >unquote > >the "classical poem" example cited, follows: > ><QUOTE cite="http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5"> ><CODE> ><pre><h1>The Lady of Shalott</h1> ><strong><p><img src="shalott.jpeg" alt=""></p></strong> ><p>On either side the river lie<br> >Long fields of barley and of rye,<br> >That clothe the wold and meet the sky;<br> >And through the field the road run by<br> >To many-tower'd Camelot;<br> >And up and down the people go,<br> >Gazing where the lilies blow<br> >Round an island there below,<br> >The island of Shalott.</p></pre> ></CODE> ></QUOTE> > >this example is problematic for several reasons: > >1. line breaks carry no semantic meaning -- why not a containing element >that indicates a line of poetry, much as <LI> and </LI> indicate the >beginning and end of a list item? The XHMTL 2 draft proposes an element for this: the "l" element: <http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-xhtml2-20060726/mod-text.html#edef_text_l>. >2. PRE does not express any meaningful semantics, nor does it lend >structure -- other than the visual illusion of structure -- to the text >contained in a PRE container... The PRE element is completely redundant here, if I understand the example correctly. >4. this example is used to illustrate the contentious claim that: > ><QUOTE cite="http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5"> >Examples where the image is purely decorative despite being relevant >would include things like a photo of the Black Rock City landscape in a >blog post about an event at Burning Man, or an image of a painting >inspired by a poem, on a page reciting that poem. The following snippet >shows an example of the latter case (only the first verse is included in >this snippet): ></UNQUOTE> The example of a painting inspired by a poem looks badly chosen; I can't think of a context where the image would be decorative if the text of the poem is also provided. If this example would occur a real website that I was evaluating, this argument would strike me as a poor excuse for leaving the alt attribute empty and I would flag it as a failure of checkpoint 1.1 (WCAG 1.0) or SC 1.1 (WCAG 2.0). Why not tell the user that there is an image of a painting inspired by the poem? Why would this interaction between a visual art and poetry only be of interest to "normally" sighted users? (And Gregory provides even more reasons why the image should be described.) >why should those processing the poem non-visually be bereft of a >description of the accompanying illustration? obviously, the illustration >captures an artist's conception of the "lady of shalott", which could aid >an individual's understanding of the poem, and which could enhance the >readers understanding of the cross-fertilization of poetry and art in a >particular era and a particular style... > >why an illustration such as that contained in the sample code be null alt >texted? why should it validate without a descriptor, in particular, a >long description of the painting -- not only those who cannot see may >need a description of the painting, but also those with color blindness >and those with an extremely restricted viewport, who may need guidance >through the illustration... > >if the illustration isn't worthy of description, then it isn't worthy of >being included in the first place -- one cannot, as the draft currently >does, classify this image as "A purely decorative image that doesn't add >any information but is still specific to the surrounding content", as the >example you cited is NOT a purely decorative image, but an interpretation >of the poem it is being used to illustrate -- therefore, it demands both >a terse and a long description... > >gregory. >-------------------------------------------------------------- >You cannot depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of >focus. -- Mark Twain >-------------------------------------------------------------- >Gregory J. Rosmaita: oedipus@hicom.net > Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/ > Oedipus' Online Complex: http://my.opera.com/oedipus >-------------------------------------------------------------- > >---- Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> wrote: > > The HTML 5 working group is questioning and debating the need for the > > alt attribute on critical content. In fact, the current HTML 5 > > Editor's Draft allows instances where critical content is allowed to > > have no alt attribute on the img element. > > > > Alternate text is essential for accessibility. There needs to be a > > markup solution to indicate whether or not the alternate text of an > > image is critical to understand the content - omitting such an > > important attribute is ambiguous, and doesn't help anyone. The problem > > is differentiating between ignorant and intentional lack of text. > > > > The issue is detailed at: > > http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/IssueAltAttribute > > > > In order for this debate to reach a satisfactory resolution, review of > > this issue and advice from the PFWG and WAI on the potential > > accessibility impact of omitting alt attribute for critical content in > > HTML 5 would be appreciated. > > > > Thank you. > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Laura L. Carlson > > Steve Faulkner > > Gregory J. Rosmaita > > Joshue O Connor > > Philip TAYLOR > > Robert Burns > > -- > > HTML WG Members Best regards, Christophe -- Christophe Strobbe K.U.Leuven - Dept. of Electrical Engineering - SCD Research Group on Document Architectures Kasteelpark Arenberg 10 bus 2442 B-3001 Leuven-Heverlee BELGIUM tel: +32 16 32 85 51 http://www.docarch.be/ Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm
Received on Tuesday, 23 October 2007 16:24:39 UTC