- From: Ben Boyle <benjamins.boyle@gmail.com>
- Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:23:18 +1000
- To: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus@hicom.net>
- Cc: public-html@w3.org, wai-xtech@w3.org
I disagree there's a parallel between images and tables. Images are completely inaccessible (why @alt is so important) without vision. The same is not true with tables. I do agree it's vital we don't drop accessibility features! That said, I'd like to see "summary" kept for times when it is needed. I do not use summary much as I find it inaccessible to a wider audience. Generally if a table is complex enough to require a description to understand it, then that description should be available to everyone (not only screen readers). This has always seemed like a flaw in @summary to me and I much prefer to proposed <summary> element in XHTML2 [1]. I'd like to see this considered for HTML5. Perhaps as a backwards compatibility step UAs could accept either @summary or <summary>, whilst the spec can encourage the use of the element in place of the attribute. Notes: [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml2/mod-tables.html#sec_30.3. On 6/11/07, Gregory J. Rosmaita <oedipus@hicom.net> wrote: > > listed in the WHAT WG's Differences from HTML4 wiki page [note 1], > under the heading Dropped Attributes, the attribute summary is > listed as dropped from the list of attributes defined for the TABLE > element. [note 2] > > what justified this decision? a summary makes it possible for someone > processing the TABLE non-visually or in small highly magnified chunks > to get an over-view of the TABLE, for what is a TABLE, other than a > visual means of displaying related data sets, and what the sighted > user sees at a glance -- the spatial relationships between cells, > rows, and column -- but, in the absence of a summary, the aural user > must investigate the table carefully and fully, just in order to > ascertain whether or not it is the correct table, how many rows by how > many columns to expect, etc. > > --------------------- > Retention Argument 1: > --------------------- > > The summary attribute is essential to a non-visual end user who is > interpreting the visual canvas with an aural renderer. It is to the > non-visual or low vision user what the gestalt view is to a sighted > user who is capable of making the correct spatial associations and an > instant -- familiarity with the layout and flow of the TABLE, which is > constantly reinforced by visually interacting with the TABLE, which is > impossible for speech-output or refreshable braille display to convey to > its user without entering and inspecting every TABLE, whether or not that > TABLE contains the information for which they are seeking. without a > summary, every TABLE will entail an extensive amount of work on the end > user's part because they are: > > 1) unaware of the table's layout, orientation, flow, content, > relevance and validity; > > 2) unaware of the relationships conveyed by the TABLE, for table-ized > data (as well as layout tables) have meaning only insofar as one > can visually and cognatively correctly correlate column and/or row > headers, even if they are incorrectly marked up (for example, > indicated by a font-weight change or a fore-ground or background > color change only) > > > --------------------- > Retention Argument 2: > --------------------- > > Summary is to the visual construct TABLE as "alt" is to IMG, and title > and description are to SVG -- necessary and required markup, so as to > indicate to the non-visual user what is subconsciously absorbed by the > majority of users, for whom it is merely a question of the ability to > associate data with row and column headers; > > > Notes: > > [1] http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Differences_from_HTML4#Dropped_Attributes > > [2] the WHAT WG's TABLE model: > http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-table > > quote > > Content model: > In this order: optionally a caption element, followed by > either zero or more colgroup elements, followed optionally > by a thead element, followed optionally by a tfoot element, > followed by either zero or more tbody elements or one or > more tr elements, followed optionally by a tfoot element > (but there can only be one tfoot element child in total). > > unquote > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > CONSERVATIVE, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, > as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them > with others. -- Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_ > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Gregory J. Rosmaita, oedipus@hicom.net > Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/index.html > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > >
Received on Monday, 11 June 2007 09:59:16 UTC