- From: Al Gilman <asgilman@iamdigex.net>
- Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 09:37:20 -0400
- To: <wai-xtech@w3.org>
- Cc: Joe Clark <joeclark@joeclark.org>
Please note the exchange below that occurred on the GL list. What the UAAG consistently refers to as "auditory description" is closely related or identical to what has in the past been called "audio description" or "video description" at different times and places. a) we should capture into the glossary the fact that both of the above Terms of Art have some currency at large and b) we should have a good reason if we want to try to establish a new Term of Art for what is essentially the same thing. [symbolically taking chair hat off] In terms of Joe's original post, in my limited knowledge he describes the pre-existing Term of Art correctly. "Video Description" is fairly widely recognized but there are problems with treating it as a generic term. "Audio Description" is preferred in the trade as a generic term for this practice, so far as I know. On the other hand, Joe's claim that "audio description" is the language of Everyman does not really stand up. "Audio description" is the term most widely accepted among those who know about the topic. But most people don't know about the concept. In plain English for those who are unfamiliar with the concept, "audio description" is uncomfortably ambiguous. The concept, roughly speaking, is "description -- in audio -- of the video." Just saying either "audio description" [meaning description in audio] or "video description" [meaning description of the video] on first reading is ambiguous in plain English. English grammar is loose enough so that either reading [in or of] is plausible and lots of readers won't understand the term just from reading it. [Point to Charles.] My best attempt so far to make a plain English rendering of the concept in two words is "audible descriptions." Here 'audible' literally means you can hear it, and the inference that it is there for you to listen to is not that much of a stretch, Semantic Pragmatics aside. I believe the motivation for using "auditory description," at least in the User Agent guidelines, is to fairly specifically move the plane of reference for the term to the immediate human interface with their environment. This is trying to make a clear separation from audio datatypes as describing the format in which the User Agent receives content. The intended sense of 'auditory' here is "targeted to the sense of hearing as presented in the physical environment of the human user." There is some sense that "audio" will carry a data-format connotation to readers of the User Agent guidelines, and in the context of those guidelines it is of some value to put an arm's-length of distance between that kneejerk reading and the "targeted to the sense of..." concept. On balance, however, it is not clear why we should try to overturn the current use of "audio description," particularly when, as in <<http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/Glossary/printable.html#def-alternative-equiv1>h ttp://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/Glossary/printable.html#def-alternative-equiv1> it is used in the sense of _reference to existing practice_ to try to exemplify a general concept. "Audio description" will be recognized by most people with some accessibility familiarity, and as Joe makes clear anything else will be considered "just wrong" by many of them. Al [Charles] Joe, english is not a formalised language like french, spanish or icelandic. And short of a brand name (as far as I know there isn't one, and if there was then W3C would probably be obliged not to use it in order to comply with various legal conditions), what is required is a term that describes what is done. "Auditory description" is one such attempt, probably better than some and worse than others. As it happens, I think that working on the substance of the guidelines is a higher priority than picking a particular terminology for ideas (once it is clear in the working group that we are all talking about the same idea). However, we recognise that before the document is finalised, terminology is important. So there has been for some time an activity within WAI to produce a single glossary that all our specifications will use, and the mailing list for comments on the topic has been advertised several times. That is the wai-xtech@w3.org mailing list, to which I would request you direct future discussion of teminology. cheers Charles McCathieNevile On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Joe Clark wrote: I see that Geoff Freed of WGBH, who works down the hall from people who do audio description every single day, has pointed out what I have pointed out before: The term for audio description is audio description, not auditory description. I don't know why you GLers seem to love "auditory" description so much. I assume because of the extra syllable. I guess four syllables are better than one to technical people, along the lines of putting words "real people" use in "quotation marks" so there's enough "distance" from the language "real people" use. As it is, we have enormous trouble getting people to use the single, comprehensible generic term "audio description"; I have heard everything from "video description" (now unfortunately official due to FCC activity) to "descriptive captioning" to "audio captioning" to a range of malapropisms in French. I wish GLers would simply say uncle and admit that the use of "auditory" description has always been wrong. It's been pointed out over and over again. Y'all are willing to rewrite substantive sections of the Guidelines to make them more understandable and correct, yet there is an unwillingness to correct this basic terminology error. This is the wrong point to be all proud about. Also, while I'm at it, captions are not all closed; the Guidelines' definition of "captioning (sometimes, 'closed captioning')," while also not needing a comma, improperly implies that captions and closed captions are one and the same. Tell that to the open-captioners. Yours in pedantry, -- Charles McCathieNevile <http://www.w3.org/People/Charles>http://www.w3.org/People/Charles phone: +61 409 134 136 W3C Web Accessibility Initiative <http://www.w3.org/WAI>http://www.w3.org/WAI fax: +1 617 258 5999 Location: 21 Mitchell street FOOTSCRAY Vic 3011, Australia (or W3C INRIA, Route des Lucioles, BP 93, 06902 Sophia Antipolis Cedex, France)
Received on Thursday, 5 July 2001 09:28:31 UTC