Re: Example of accessible CAPTCHAS that work well

Denis,

First I would say drop security please and deal with accessibilty alone.
You would be making a false statement to say that if you follow wcag 2 your
site will be accessible to every one - correct? Is captcha accessible
within the guidelines. yes.

Does anything else matter. If yes we are talking politics right. Let us
leave this to politicians. Captchas are accessible according to wcag 2 - i
will not address usable and they do serve a valuable real world purpose.

V/R
Rob Yonaitis
On Nov 17, 2011 1:04 PM, "Denis Boudreau" <dboudreau@accessibiliteweb.com>
wrote:

> Hi Rob,
>
> On 2011-11-17, at 11:38 AM, Robert Yonaitis wrote:
>
> > Personally, I have sat on the fence between technology, privacy,
> > security and usability for a couple decades. I believe that when
> > discussing accessibility (A11y) we need to be inclusive.  If we are
> > saying that Captchas are not usable that is one thing. There are
> > plenty of things that are not usable. If we are discussing if captchas
> > can be made accessible than the answer has to be yes.
>
> Of course, I stand by you when it comes to inclusion. I totally agree.
> However, I have yet to see one captcha example that actually is accessible
> to everyone and secure enough to be a viable option. In all modesty, the
> closest I've seen so far is our attempt at creating a device independent
> captcha slider last year - distcha [1] - with the canadian government and
> even that still fails a few requirements in terms of robustness...
>
> [1] http://tbs-sct.ircan-rican.gc.ca/projects/gcwwwcaptcha/roadmap
>
> Until I see one (or we come up with a solution that works perfectly), I
> just cannot admit to it.
>
>
> > The W3C Accessibility Initiatives should not be in the business of
> > promoting or excluding individual technologies because they do not
> > approve of their usability or features, in fact if the W3C wants a
> > broader acceptance for their efforts they should help all technologies
> > be accessible a great example would be ARIA.
>
> I disagree. I believe it IS the responsibility of the WAI to raise
> awareness about the limitations of "solutions" like captcha and they have
> done so in the past (refer to Matt May's note from 2005:
> http://www.w3.org/TR/turingtest/). If not on the WAI level, then at least
> in EOWG.
>
> The idea is not necessarily to say flat out that captchas are evil (though
> they are, we're amongst ourselves, let's call a cat a cat), but at the very
> least, not to promote it's use by suggesting a "viable solution" in the
> GOOD/BAD demo that in fact, wouldn't necessarily be viable or accessible.
>
> As you very well know, it's not just a matter of invoking Aria, the mighty
> Viking goddess of opera (as depicted in WebAIM's presentations), for
> captchas to magically work out. Aria is great, but it requires technologies
> that support it and users who can access those technologies, two situations
> that are far from perfect today.
>
> I'm all for looking into or building solutions using aria that will work
> tomorrow (distcha again was an example of this), but in the meantime, we
> all need a solution that actually works today, with yesterday's
> technologies.
>
> And none does. So I stand my ground. ;p
>
>
> > In the end captchas like
> > them em or not can be made accessible and do serve a purpose isn't the
> > rest simply opinion.
>
> Please provide me with one working example that would make me change my
> mind. Just one. A lot of us really need it.
>
>
> > I believe if the W3C started looking at things this way there would be
> > a wider buy in amongst engineers. In the end the best document will be
> > the inclusive document IMHO.
>
> I believe the W3C already does it's job. Of course, more can always be
> done. But it's not entirely up to them to solve all the world's problems
> too.
>
> If there were just a few private interests looking into captcha that
> actually understood accessibility, we wouldn't have so many crappy
> alternatives to captchas out there that are ust as bad (if not worse) and
> that just keep pushing the boundaries of exclusion further and further back
> for people with disabilities.
>
> Regards,
>
> /Denis
>
>
>