- From: Heath, Geoffrey <geoffrey.heath@hp.com>
- Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 15:15:31 +0000
- To: Jo Rabin <jrabin@mtld.mobi>
- CC: Yeliz Yesilada <yesilady@cs.man.ac.uk>, "wai-eo-editors@w3.org" <wai-eo-editors@w3.org>, public-bpwg <public-bpwg@w3.org>
Yes that is very true. Good catch Jo! But.. With "in document order"... If a device supports X-Y position element sensing, then that last little part isn't true. --------------- Example: Element 1 starts in Focus [Element 1] [Element 2] [Element 3] [Element 4] A. [Position Sensing] If I hit down on my rocker pad, I would go to the element BELOW what I was focused on.. So I would be at "element 4". B. [Non position sensing] If I hit down on my rocker pad, I would go to the "next element" in document order which would be "element 2". ------------------- My suggestion: "mobile devices may not have a pointing device so the user may have to navigate elements serially" _________________________ Geoff Heath Hewlett-Packard Sr. Information Architect -----Original Message----- From: Jo Rabin [mailto:jrabin@mtld.mobi] Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 8:09 AM To: Heath, Geoffrey Cc: Yeliz Yesilada; wai-eo-editors@w3.org; public-bpwg Subject: Re: Editorial comments on "Shared Web Experiences: Barriers Common to Mobile Device Users and People with Disabilities" Hi Sorry to continue what I think is a very small point, but I am not clear what "tab navigation" means other than using the tab key to navigate. Since a lot of mobile devices don't have a tab key that doesn't really work. Perhaps the following works: mobile devices may not have a pointing device so the user may have to navigate elements serially in document order. Jo On 14/10/2008 15:01, Heath, Geoffrey wrote: > That definition sounds good to me. > > "mobile devices may not have > a pointing device so user can use tab navigation to move from one > element to another" > > I think that's great. > > _________________________ > Geoff Heath > Hewlett-Packard > Sr. Information Architect > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Yeliz Yesilada [mailto:yesilady@cs.man.ac.uk] > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 5:57 AM > To: Jo Rabin > Cc: Heath, Geoffrey; wai-eo-editors@w3.org; public-bpwg > Subject: Re: Editorial comments on "Shared Web Experiences: Barriers Common to Mobile Device Users and People with Disabilities" > > I think if we are having this discussion here that means my > definition is not good :) I personally want to keep them as short as > possible as the other W3C documents explain the stated problems in > detail. I will change the definition to "mobile devices may not have > a pointing device so user can use tab navigation to move from one > element to another". > > Jo, Geoff, will it be OK for you if I change the definition to this? > > Yeliz. > > On 14 Oct 2008, at 05:45, Jo Rabin wrote: > >> Geoff - thanks, I think that the devices are characterised by what >> they don't have rather than what they do have. I'm not clear that >> using a touch screen involves tab navigation so I would prefer to >> stay with "may not have a pointing device". >> >> Jo >> >> On 13/10/2008 22:25, Heath, Geoffrey wrote: >>> Jo and Yeliz, >>> In regards to the previous statements below: >>>>> Sorry if this seems a bit picky, or unduly politically correct, but >>>>> >>>>> "Mobile Context: Pointing device not present or inadequate." >>>>> >>>>> I think that saying "inadequate" opens a number of questions which >>>>> we don't want to go into here, so maybe we can just say "There may >>>>> be no pointing device" >>> > I understand your point. What about changing Mobile >>> context to " >>> > Device has no mouse, only alphanumeric keypad or >>> joystick so user can >>> > use tab navigation to move from one element to another". >>> Do you think >>> > this will solve the ambiguity in the definition? >>> I think the Mobile Context definition needs to be thought of in a >>> broader scope, because the navigation paradigms are ever-changing. >>> Issues I see with the proposed definitions above. >>> - I don't know of a mobile device that utilizes a mouse. >>> - Touch / Multi-touch screen interfaces are not addressed.. There >>> is no "mouse or stylus", but the device still allows for "non tab >>> navigation of content". >>> - What about devices that utilize a rollerball [blackberry >>> style].. This is not addressed. >>> - What about devices that utilize multi-soft key only? [2-3 >>> softkeys]. >>> - What about devices that utilze a touchpad? >>> - Is joystick a synanomous term with rockerpad? What is the >>> current industry definition/name for that hardware element? >>> I believe the broader the scope of the definition, the less >>> "detailed nuances" you will have troubles with, and the longer the >>> document can remain effective. Device navigation paradigms are >>> constantly changing and evolving. >>> I would propose sticking with something even more generic and simple: >>> "Mobile Context: Tab Navigation to move from one element to >>> another".. >>> There is no amgiguity in the definition... Tab navigation is being >>> used, regardless of device capabilities/paradigm. Yet, it doesn't >>> involve the intimate details of attaching every type of device >>> navigation paradigm to the definition. Clean, simple, and more >>> "timeless". >>> My thoughts. >>> _________________________ >>> Geoff Heath >>> Hewlett-Packard >>> Sr. Information Architect >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: public-bpwg-request@w3.org [mailto:public-bpwg- >>> request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Yeliz Yesilada >>> Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 2:02 PM >>> To: Jo Rabin >>> Cc: wai-eo-editors@w3.org; public-bpwg >>> Subject: Re: Editorial comments on "Shared Web Experiences: >>> Barriers Common to Mobile Device Users and People with Disabilities" >>> Hi Jo, >>> Thanks for your comments. >>> On 13 Oct 2008, at 10:13, Jo Rabin wrote: >>>>>> Under Focus (tab) order - I think the mobile section sort of >>>> implies that navigation is via tab key, which it isn't, but in any >>>> case it may be worth mentioning that it's hard to navigate with the >>>> common 4-way rocker. >>>> >>>>> Please let me know what you think about the latest version of the >>>> description, I tried not to talk about any specific technology here. >>>> >>>> Sorry if this seems a bit picky, or unduly politically correct, but >>>> >>>> "Mobile Context: Pointing device not present or inadequate." >>>> >>>> I think that saying "inadequate" opens a number of questions which >>>> we don't want to go into here, so maybe we can just say "There may >>>> be no pointing device" >>> I understand your point. What about changing Mobile context to " >>> Device has no mouse, only alphanumeric keypad or joystick so user can >>> use tab navigation to move from one element to another". Do you think >>> this will solve the ambiguity in the definition? >>>>> Changed the description to "Some older mobile browsers do not >>>> display content with invalid markup. Additionally, content >>>> adaptation for mobile device agents is unpredictable and possibly >>>> incomplete if the page markup is invalid." >>>> >>>> I really think the second sentence (Additionally ...) asks more >>>> questions than it answers so it would be better if it was removed. >>> OK, I will remove that. >>> Please let me know what you think about the suggested change above so >>> that I can quickly change the document. >>> Yeliz. >
Received on Tuesday, 14 October 2008 15:17:04 UTC