Forward: D tags and ICADD thread.

One message from Murray Maloney followed by my comments.

We will probably discuss that at the meeting Thursday, so your comments
are welcome.

------- Forwarded Message

Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 19:30:28 -0400
To: dsr@w3.org
From: Murray Maloney <murray@yuri.org> (by way of Mike Paciello <paciello@ma.ultranet.com>)
Subject: Dave/Dan: We would like to propose "D" Tag, use of FIG, IPP
  and PP at HTML meeting - thanks, Mike
Cc: Daniel.Dardailler@sophia.inria.fr, connolly@w3.org

Hi,

Here is a summary of my notes from the
recent ICADD meeting...

To accomodate the need for a so-called "D" tag,
we agreed that we could use the existing <A>
tag with the REL attribute value set as "DESCRIPTION"
The convention for the content of the <A> element 
could continue to be the text "D". However, when
user agents are able to deal with <A REL="DESCRIPTION>,
they might use a style sheet mechanism to hide the
content of the element and substitute an icon, or
language-specific text.

In consideration of the potential need for multiple
alternate versions of descriptive text, ICADD recommends
the use of the <FIG> element to serve as a container
for an image and attendant "descriptions" and "alt" text.

For example:

        <FIG>
        <IMG SRC="image.png" ALT="Picture of ICADD">
        <A REL="DESCRIPTION" LANG="ENGLISH" HREF="....">D</A>
        <A REL="DESCRIPTION" LANG="FRENCH"  HREF="....">D</A>
        <A REL="DESCRIPTION" LANG="SPANISH" HREF="....">D</A>
        <A REL="DESCRIPTION" LANG="ITALIAN" HREF="....">D</A>
        <ALT LANG="ENGLISH">...</ALT>
        <ALT LANG="FRENCH">...</ALT>
        <ALT LANG="SPANISH">...</ALT>
        <ALT LANG="ITALIAN">...</ALT>
        </FIG>

Note: The langauge names listed above are not specified
in the accepted syntax. They are used to illustrate.
I will have to update this example with the correct 
values for language specification.


- ----------------------------------------------------------------

To accomodate the need to match the functionality
of the <IPP> and <PP> elements in the ICADD-22,
we agreed that we could use the existing <A> tag.
The use of <A> in this case requires the use of
standardized values for the REL and REV attributes,
and a convention for the names of target anchors.

We need conventions for pointing to a target anchor
and asserting that it represents the beginning of
an "Imprint Page" or a "Braille Page". There are
two potential and complementary mechanisms available:

        - Use a naming conventions for identifying
          anchors, such as "IPP-[0-9]+", "IPP-[ivxlc]",
          "BPP-[0-9]+" or "IPP-[ivxlc]+", etc.

        - Use REL="BPP" or REL="IPP"

I assert that it would be helpful and reliably redundant
to utilize both methods, and am recommending that.


We need conventions for naming an anchor, which may serve
as the target of a hypertext link, that asserts itself
to be the represent the beginning of an "Imprint Page" 
or a "Braille Page". There are two potential and 
complementary mechanisms available:

        - Use a naming conventions for identifying
          anchors, such as "IPP-[0-9]+", "IPP-[ivxlc]",
          "BPP-[0-9]+" or "IPP-[ivxlc]+", etc.

        - Use REV="BPP" or REV="IPP"

I assert that it would be helpful and reliably redundant
to utilize both methods, and am recommending that.

Regards,

Murray

Murray Maloney, Technical Advisor
Yuri Rubinsky Insight Foundation
671 Cowan Circle
Pickering, Ontario
Canada     L1W 3K6

Email: murray@yuri.org
Phone: (905) 509-9120
Cell:  (416) 801-3031


------- End of Forwarded Message

------- Forwarded Message

From: Daniel Dardailler <danield@w3.org> 
To: Murray Maloney <murray@yuri.org>
cc: paciello@ma.ultranet.com, dsr@w3.org, connolly@w3.org
Subject: "D" Tag, use of FIG, IPP and PP.
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 11:34:53 +0200


> To accomodate the need for a so-called "D" tag,

I found a reference for the D tag
   http://trace.wisc.edu/text/guidelns/htmlgide/htmlgide.htm#appb.dtags
is this the correct one ?

What it says is:

  "A D-tag is a capital "D" text anchor that appears next to or below an
   image. This "D" links to a page with a full description of the
   image. Because D-tag descriptions appear on their own pages, they
   can be as long as an author wants them to be."

My understanding is that the new cougar OBJECT tag will in fact serve
the same purpose, and so I'm not in favor of doing anything with D
tags at this point.

> For example:
> 
>         <FIG>
>         <IMG SRC="image.png" ALT="Picture of ICADD">
>         <A REL="DESCRIPTION" LANG="ENGLISH" HREF="....">D</A>
>         <A REL="DESCRIPTION" LANG="FRENCH"  HREF="....">D</A>
>         <A REL="DESCRIPTION" LANG="SPANISH" HREF="....">D</A>
>         <A REL="DESCRIPTION" LANG="ITALIAN" HREF="....">D</A>
>         <ALT LANG="ENGLISH">...</ALT>
>         <ALT LANG="FRENCH">...</ALT>
>         <ALT LANG="SPANISH">...</ALT>
>         <ALT LANG="ITALIAN">...</ALT>
>         </FIG>

Unless I'm mistaken, FIG and ALT are not valid HTML elements at this
point. Are you suggesting they get added ?
 
> Note: The langauge names listed above are not specified
> in the accepted syntax. They are used to illustrate.
> I will have to update this example with the correct 
> values for language specification.

Langage can also be taken care of with HTTP Content-Language
negociation.


> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> To accomodate the need to match the functionality
> of the <IPP> and <PP> elements in the ICADD-22,

Is there a better reference to the semantics of these elements than:
  http://www.cm.spyglass.com/doc/icadd/icadmech.html

Basically, IPP and PP are for reference to printed page numbering.

I think our team working on printing HTML/CSS should look at that.

My reaction is that since we don't know how to print HTML well yet, it
is too early to think about any mapping mechanism for accessibility
purpose.

Maybe I'm being blunt, but I have a hard time understanding how this
whole IPP/BPP mechanism work.

This is markup that appears in a source HTML and describe a post
formating information ?

How is that achievable ?

> we agreed that we could use the existing <A> tag.
> The use of <A> in this case requires the use of
> standardized values for the REL and REV attributes,
> and a convention for the names of target anchors.
> 
> We need conventions for pointing to a target anchor
> and asserting that it represents the beginning of
> an "Imprint Page" or a "Braille Page". There are
> two potential and complementary mechanisms available:
> 
>         - Use a naming conventions for identifying
>           anchors, such as "IPP-[0-9]+", "IPP-[ivxlc]",
>           "BPP-[0-9]+" or "IPP-[ivxlc]+", etc.
> 
>         - Use REL="BPP" or REL="IPP"
> 
> I assert that it would be helpful and reliably redundant
> to utilize both methods, and am recommending that.
> 
> 
> We need conventions for naming an anchor, which may serve
> as the target of a hypertext link, that asserts itself
> to be the represent the beginning of an "Imprint Page" 
> or a "Braille Page". There are two potential and 
> complementary mechanisms available:
> 
>         - Use a naming conventions for identifying
>           anchors, such as "IPP-[0-9]+", "IPP-[ivxlc]",
>           "BPP-[0-9]+" or "IPP-[ivxlc]+", etc.
> 
>         - Use REV="BPP" or REV="IPP"
> 
> I assert that it would be helpful and reliably redundant
> to utilize both methods, and am recommending that.

Received on Tuesday, 20 May 1997 08:07:46 UTC