Minutes: User Agent Telecon 14 May 2015

source: http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-ua-minutes.html
User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 14 May 2015

See also: IRC log  http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-ua-irc
<http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-ua-irc>
Attendees
PresentJeanne, Kim_Patch, Greg_Lowney, kim, jeanne, JimAllanRegretsChairjim
AllanScribeallanj
Contents

   - Topics <http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-ua-minutes.html#agenda>
      1. Cynthia comments
      <http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-ua-minutes.html#item01>
      2. Comment 1 - ​Access to the DOM should not be required.
      <http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-ua-minutes.html#item02>
      3. Comment ​2.User Style Sheets should not be required to be exposed
      to the USER. <http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-ua-minutes.html#item03>
   - Summary of Action Items
   <http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-ua-minutes.html#ActionSummary>

------------------------------

<trackbot> Date: 14 May 2015

<scribe> scribe: allanj

<jeanne>
https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m5f383892ba07c62c662f101dfec8a13d

<jeanne> +1-617-324-0000 US Toll Number

<jeanne> 644 111 325

https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m5f383892ba07c62c662f101dfec8a13d

<jeanne>
https://photonarrations.wordpress.com/2015/04/21/short-image-descriptions-alt_text_bot-on-twitter/
Cynthia comments Comment 1 - ​Access to the DOM should not be required.

ja: concerns about limiting access to DOM. In the past IBM was adamant
about AT needing access to the DOM

<scribe> *ACTION:* jimallan to write IBM and Freedom Scientific for more
info - report back [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Error finding 'jimallan'. You can review and register nicknames
at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/users>.

<scribe> *ACTION:* allanj to write IBM and Freedom Scientific for more info
- report back [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Error finding 'allanj'. You can review and register nicknames at
<http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/users>.

<jeanne> No one will know that the ARIA is breaking the page, until somone
explicitly uses it with accessibility.

discussion of just in time loading of ARIA for accessibility. With out a
call to the accessibility API the ARIA is not loaded etc.

gl: if AT not allowed access to the DOM, then extensions can't get to it
either
Comment ​2.User Style Sheets should not be required to be exposed to the
USER.

ja: what is the alternative for users? Will there be an interface provided
by the user agent to make the appropriate settings changes

gl: they can include specific extensions that will allow access to the CSS
and allow the user to modify the CSS to meet their needs
... there needs to be some interface (extension or UA feature) to allow
users to modify the presentation of content

<Greg> There is little functional difference between requiring that
browsers expose this as an API (available to extensions) and exposing it
directly to end users via built-in UI. In either case, for the browser to
be sufficiently accessible, there must be UI that exposes the user style
sheet functionality tot he user.

<Greg> If Microsoft is willing to accept requiring user style sheets at the
developer level, they just have to make sure that at least one browser
extension makes use of that and provides some UI for it.

This is a Use Case. User needs to modify the presentation of the content.
User Stylesheets is one mechanism. UA interface or extension to allow the
manipulation of CSS to meet users needs.

question? if CSS explicitly talks about user CSS and the !important to
override author, why are browsers stripping it out.

there is a need. and only poor mechanisms for users to change the
presentation of content

gl: stylish use User CSS? if they don't use them perhaps rewrite to allow a
Stylish type functionality.
... the current tool or functions in browsers are poor

<Greg> That is, possibly rewrite to focus on the end-user functionality
rather than the specific mechanism.

<Greg> As in, the user can apply formatting (e.g. styles) to all web
content, overriding author-provided formatting.

ja: chrome has no user stylesheets, must use Stylish to override Author CSS

gl: a good case for allowing user to turn off CSS, and override Author CSS

js: focus should be making it easier to use, people NEED the functionality.
User CSS is poor.

ja: stylish is geeky

gl: thats ok to need technical person to do this

kp: need to be able to transfer CSS or settings between browsers etc.
... it would be nice for users to be able to do this in an easy manner

ja: change doc to a NOTE, or make the NOTE include Use Cases

js: Use Case should be a separate NOTE.
... are we changing 1.7

gl: change wording to meet functionality not specifically calling out user
style sheets

functionality needed:

turn off CSS

modifications are transportable

some mechanism (user CSS is one mechanism)

<scribe> *ACTION:* allanj with greg to rewrite 1.7 to be mechanism and not
specifically user style sheets [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Error finding 'allanj'. You can review and register nicknames at
<http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/users>.

<scribe> *ACTION:* jallan with greg to rewrite 1.7 to be mechanism and not
specifically user style sheets [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-ua-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1085 - With greg to rewrite 1.7 to be mechanism
and not specifically user style sheets [on Jim Allan - due 2015-05-21].
 Summary of Action Items *[NEW]* *ACTION:* allanj to write IBM and Freedom
Scientific for more info - report back [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-ua-minutes.html#action02]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* allanj with greg to rewrite 1.7 to be mechanism and not
specifically user style sheets [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-ua-minutes.html#action03]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jallan with greg to rewrite 1.7 to be mechanism and not
specifically user style sheets [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-ua-minutes.html#action04]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jimallan to write IBM and Freedom Scientific for more
info - report back [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-ua-minutes.html#action01]

[End of minutes]

-- 
[image: http://www.tsbvi.edu] <http://www.tsbvi.edu>Jim Allan,
Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964