- From: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
- Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 13:47:45 -0500
- To: WAI-ua <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CA+=z1WkyXzxpnY=U89FT10BbV8f4z0oqRNif3XgJE1kNvLtcnQ@mail.gmail.com>
http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html
User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 14 Aug 2014
See also: IRC log http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-irc
<http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-irc>
Attendees
Presentkford, Jim_Allan, Kim_Patch, Jeanne, Jan,
Greg_LowneyRegretsChairJimAllan,
KellyFordScribeallanj
Contents
- Topics <http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#agenda>
1. rewrite 1.8.2 example 2
<http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#item01>
2. proposal for CA05
<http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#item02>
3. new example for 2.11.3 per SB04
<http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#item03>
4. updating example for 2.9.1
<http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#item04>
5. WAET <http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#item05>
6. Ms04 <http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#item06>
7. def of recognize MS04
<http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#item07>
8. sb04 example <http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#item08>
9. MS07 beyond desktop
<http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#item09>
- Summary of Action Items
<http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
------------------------------
<trackbot> Date: 14 August 2014
Summary of Action Items *[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to add IER to 3.2.y from
Kim's proposal [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action02]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to buff the proposed response to MS07 above to
include some of Greg's text and links to the referenced items. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action07]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to edit definition of Recognized as above
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action06]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to update 1.8.10 with proposal above. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action01]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* kford to look at how we reference applicablability to
just the user agent and ensure he's happy with it based off of 2.9.1
discussion. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action03]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* kford to review and revise IER for 2.9.1. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action04]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* kford to shorten and clarify 2.9.1 based on group
thinking that it only applies to user agent UI and reflect GL's belief that
it is too long. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action05]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JulSep/0051.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JulSep/0050.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JulSep/0047.html
open item 1
<scribe> scribe: allanj
<jeanne> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2014/
main page for TPAC http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/
rewrite 1.8.2 example 2
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JulSep/0047.html
Resolution: add "George uses a screen reader. He is showing a sighted
colleague how to complete a registration form that's contained within a
viewport. The form exceeds the vertical bounds of the viewport. As George
completes each form field and navigates sequentially to the next (by
pressing the TAB key), if the next form field is not already visible in the
viewport, it scrolls into view."...
... as example 2 for 1.8.2 on comment EO21
close action-1010
<trackbot> Closed action-1010.
proposal for CA05
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JulSep/0042.html
<scribe> NEW 3.2.X Form Auto-Fill: The user can have the following
information stored and used to auto-fill form fields at their request:
(Level AA) - name - email address - phone number
ja: any objections?
Resolution: Add NEW 3.2.X Form Auto-Fill: The user can have the following
information stored and used to auto-fill form fields at their request:
(Level AA) - name - email address - phone number to document
... Add NEW 3.2.X Form Auto-Fill: The user can have the following
information stored and used to auto-fill form fields by request: (Level AA)
- name - email address - phone number to document
<scribe> NEW 3.2.Y Save Form Entries: If the user agent provides a feature
to save local versions of web content, then any form fields the user has
filled retain their entries in the saved version. (Level AA)
this is split out of Kim's proposal
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JulSep/0034.html)
IER can be rescued from Kim's proposal 0034.html
<scribe> NEW 3.2.Y Save Form Entries: If the user agent provides a feature
to save local versions of web content, then any form fields the user has
filled retain any entries in the saved version. (Level AA)
ja: +1
kp: +1
kf: +1
*RESOLUTION: NEW 3.2.Y Save Form Entries: If the user agent provides a
feature to save local versions of web content, then any form fields the
user has filled retain any entries in the saved version. (Level AA)*
EDIT 1.8.10 Provide Viewport History: For user agents that implement a
history mechanism for top-level viewports (e.g. "back" button), the user
can return to any state in the viewport history that is allowed by the
content, including: (Level AA)
(a) restored point of regard,
(b) input focus,
(c) selection, and
(d) user's form field entries
reformatted as a list, added form field entry history
*RESOLUTION: EDIT 1.8.10 Provide Viewport History: For user agents that
implement a history mechanism for top-level viewports (e.g. "back" button),
the user can return to any state in the viewport history that is allowed by
the content, including: (Level AA)*
(a) restored point of regard,
(b) input focus,
(c) selection, and
(d) user's form field entries
close action-1009
<trackbot> Closed action-1009.
close action-1006
<trackbot> Closed action-1006.
close item 3
close item 2
<jeanne> *ACTION:* jeanne to update 1.8.10 with proposal above. [recorded
in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1012 - Update 1.8.10 with proposal above. [on
Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-08-21].
<jeanne> *ACTION:* jeanne to add IER to 3.2.y from Kim's proposal [recorded
in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1013 - Add ier to 3.2.y from kim's proposal [on
Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-08-21].
new example for 2.11.3 per SB04
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JulSep/0050.html
"Pavel has low vision, so his browser is set to show extremely large text.
He needs to click on a control on a web page, but when he moves the pointer
over it a script inserts explanatory text onto the page. Because of the
large font size this shifts the control out from under the pointer, causing
the new text to disappear. This moves the control back under the mouse, and
the cycle repeats...
scribe: itself. The page continues to flicker back and forth, and he is
unable to click on the control. To work around this problem he uses a
browser command to temporarily disable scripts on the page, allowing him to
click on the control and complete his task."
ja: nice
*RESOLUTION: except example for 2.11.3 for comment SB04*
updating example for 2.9.1
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JulSep/0051.html
related to SB05
"User closes the Exit command on their web browser, which displays a
message box asking if they're sure they want to exit, with a timer saying
it will assume yes if they don't respond within 10 seconds. User changes
settings in their user options to turn off this timeout."
gl: I also think that the Intent should be greatly expanded to clarify what
is meant by the various exceptions, especially "Real-time Exception: The
time limit is a required part of a real-time event and no alternative to
the time limit is possible" and "Essential Exception: The time limit is
essential and extending it would invalidate the activity". It was easier to
come up with examples...
... for these when the SC applied to content, but now that it's only about
the user agent user interface, it's not so obvious. Can others help with
examples?
2.9.1 Adjustable Time Limits:
The user agent user interface does not include time limits or at least one
of the following is true: (Level A)
Turn Off: Users are allowed to turn off the time limit before encountering
it; or
Adjust: Users are allowed to adjust the time limit before encountering it
over a wide range that is at least ten times the length of the default
setting; or
Extend: Users are warned before time expires and given at least 20 seconds
to extend the time limit with a simple action (e.g. "press the space bar"),
and users are allowed to extend the time limit at least ten times; or
Real-time Exception: The time limit is a required part of a real-time event
and no alternative to the time limit is possible; or
Essential Exception: The time limit is essential and extending it would
invalidate the activity; or
20 Hour Exception: The time limit is longer than 20 hours.
Original SC
2.9.1 Adjustable Time Limits: Where time limits for user input are
recognized and controllable by the user agent, the user can extend the time
limits. (Level A)
kf: do we really want the browser to impact how much time I can spend at my
bank website
... UAs have very few timeouts these days. should say Note: this only
applies to only UA interface, not content.
jr: if we add note, then anytime we use UAUI we have to include the note.
ja: Jaws and Window eyes can control meta-refresh
kf: very few websites do meta-refresh. most do an AJAX call
ja: this seems very complex
discussion
kf: want this to be obvious that it does not apply to content.
history http://www.w3.org/2014/02/06-ua-minutes.html#item03
see Action-941
jr: the timing of things is an issue, for dialog buttons, or setting
<kford> +10000 on what Jan is saying!
jr: not include meta-refresh, or ajax. Internet security says don't trust
the browser.
<kford> The general rule is no longer trust the UAAG without knowing you
can verify.
<kford> *ACTION:* kford to look at how we reference applicablability to
just the user agent and ensure he's happy with it based off of 2.9.1
discussion. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1014 - Look at how we reference applicablability
to just the user agent and ensure he's happy with it based off of 2.9.1
discussion. [on Kelly Ford - due 2014-08-21].
<kford> *ACTION:* kford to review and revise IER for 2.9.1. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1015 - Review and revise ier for 2.9.1. [on Kelly
Ford - due 2014-08-21].
ja: the Intent is completely out of alignment with the SC
gl: this seems overly complicated
<kford> *ACTION:* kford to shorten and clarify 2.9.1 based on group
thinking that it only applies to user agent UI and reflect GL's belief that
it is too long. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1016 - Shorten and clarify 2.9.1 based on group
thinking that it only applies to user agent ui and reflect gl's belief that
it is too long. [on Kelly Ford - due 2014-08-21].
WAET
WAI invites you to comment on the First Public Working Draft of:
Developers' Guide to Features of Web Accessibility Evaluation Tools
http://www.w3.org/TR/WAET/
close item 1
Ms04
http://www.w3.org/2014/05/01-ua-minutes.html#item03
related to 2.3.4
def of recognize MS04
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014AprJun/0026.html
Proposal:
Recognize: *Information or events that can be identified unambiguously by
user agents.*
*Recognized content:**Information that is encoded within content in a way
that can be unambiguously recognized by user agents.* Authors encode
information in many ways, including in markup languages, style sheet
languages, scripting languages, and protocols. When the information is
encoded in a manner that allows the user agent to process it with
certainty, the user agent can...
scribe: "recognize" the information. For instance, HTML allows authors to
specify a heading with the H1 element, so a user agent that implements HTML
can recognize that content as a heading. If *instead* the author creates a
heading using a visual effect alone (e.g. just by increasing the font
size), then the author has encoded the *paragraph* in a manner that does
not allow the user agent to...
... recognize it as a heading. *In those cases**the heading is unrecognized
and the user agent would not be required to treat it as a heading*. Some
requirements of UAAG 2.0 depend on content roles, content
relationships, timing relationships, and other information supplied by the
author. These requirements only apply when the author has encoded that
information in a manner that the user agent can recognize. See the section
on conformance for more information about applicability. User agents will
rely heavily on information that the author has encoded in a markup
language or style sheet...
scribe: language. Behaviors, style, *and* meaning encoded in a script, and
markup in an unfamiliar XML namespace*,* may not be recognized by the user
agent as easily or at all.
*Note: Whether or not an aspect of the content is considered recognized
depends solely on the content format and the way an author encodes the
information. Because the H1 tag is part of the HTML standard, when it is
used properly by the content author the heading would be considered
recognized even if a particular user agent ignores the H1 tag.*
*Recognized actions: Actions or events that can be unambiguously identified
by a user agent. This can include actions or events initiated by users,
scripts, extensions, or other sources. For example, if the keyboard focus
is on a web page when the user presses a key, the user agent can recognize
the keystroke and can act upon it. If the keyboard focus is on an embedded
media player...
scribe: when the user presses a key, the host user agent may or may not be
able to detect the keystroke, depending on the embedding architecture.
Similarly, when the user activates an INPUT element with type="submit", the
user agent will recognize this as a form submission action and carry out
the proper interchange with the server. However, if a page includes a
custom control that looks like a...
... button labeled "Submit**" but whose actions are entirely handled by an
author-provided script, the user agent would not be able to recognize the
user action as equivalent to a form submission. Actions such
as opening of new browser window would always be implemented by the user
agent, so the action would be recognized regardless of whether it was
initiated by the user clicking a button or by a script calling a browser
function.*
<jeanne> *ACTION:* jeanne to edit definition of Recognized as above
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1017 - Edit definition of recognized as above [on
Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-08-21].
*RESOLUTION: add definition "recognize" along with explanation to document
(SB04)*
<KimPatch> Topic SBO4 example
sb04 example
<KimPatch> Pavel has low vision, and his browser is set to show extremely
large text. He needs to click a control on a web page, but when he moves
the pointer over it a script inserts explanatory text onto the page. The
large font size causes the control to shift out from under the pointer,
making the new text disappear. When the text disappears, the control moves
back under the mouse, and the cycle...
<KimPatch> ...repeats. As the page flickers, Pavel is unable to click on
the control. To work around this problem he uses a browser command to
temporarily disable scripts on the page so he can click the control and
complete his task.
<kford> Hey, I have to leave a couple early!
<kford> My apologies.
<Greg> close ACTION-977
<trackbot> Closed ACTION-977.
MS07 beyond desktop
js: checked with indieUI, and MC about language related to keyboard...no
luck
close action-983
<trackbot> Closed action-983.
js: we reference all mobile examples in the implementing document because
it is more easily updated.
<jeanne> proposed response to MS07: UAWG published a separate W3C Note with
Mobile examples of most of the UAAG success criteria. UAWG chose to put
most of their non-desktop examples in the Implementing document, so it
could be kept up to date without undermining the stability of UAAG success
criteria.
kp: with mobile and speech, focus doesn't matter. Siri moves to where you
say.
ja: or with gestures, you set the 'dial' to links then each swipe moves to
the next link
gl: you can always use a blue tooth keyboard to control the mobile browser
kp: focus is an issue with speech, can't delete characters during text entry
gl: the comment mentions keyboard. and we don't address that issue
js: keyboard was just an example.
<Greg> The concern about availability of keyboard input is caused by
misinterpreting the technical term "keyboard", which is not limited to the
on-screen keyboards provided by the platform. In our document the term also
includes physical keyboards that can be connected externally, third-party
on-screen keyboards that can add modifiers and navigation keys, and
software interfaces that can be used by...
<Greg> ...assistive technology software.
<jeanne> UAWG put non-desktop examples throughout Implementing UAAG. UAWG
chose to put most of their non-desktop examples in Implementing UAAG (a W3C
Note), so it could be kept up to date without undermining the stability of
UAAG success criteria. In addition, UAAG contains broad definitions of
keyboard and a note under Principle 2 on Modality independence which also
includes references to Indie UI.
<jeanne> *ACTION:* jeanne to buff the proposed response to MS07 above to
include some of Greg's text and links to the referenced items. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/08/14-ua-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1018 - Buff the proposed response to ms07 above
to include some of greg's text and links to the referenced items. [on
Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-08-21].
[End of minutes]
--
[image: http://www.tsbvi.edu] <http://www.tsbvi.edu>Jim Allan,
Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
Received on Thursday, 14 August 2014 18:48:11 UTC