Minutes: UAWG telecon 20 Feb 2014

from: http://www.w3.org/2014/02/20-ua-minutes.html
User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 20 Feb 2014

See also: IRC log  http://www.w3.org/2014/02/20-ua-irc
<http://www.w3.org/2014/02/20-ua-irc>
Attendees
PresentJim_Allan, Greg_Lowney, Kim_Patch, Jan, Jeanne,
KellyRegretsericChairJimAllan,
KellyFordScribeallanj
Contents

   - Topics <http://www.w3.org/2014/02/20-ua-minutes.html#agenda>
      1. IER for Reflow SC<http://www.w3.org/2014/02/20-ua-minutes.html#item01>
      2. IER 1.8.y <http://www.w3.org/2014/02/20-ua-minutes.html#item02>
      3. 1.8.z <http://www.w3.org/2014/02/20-ua-minutes.html#item03>
      4. SB06:Which is also related to
WD2<http://www.w3.org/2014/02/20-ua-minutes.html#item04>
      5. MS01 web-based user
agent<http://www.w3.org/2014/02/20-ua-minutes.html#item05>
      6. MS01 separation UA from
AT<http://www.w3.org/2014/02/20-ua-minutes.html#item06>
   - Summary of Action
Items<http://www.w3.org/2014/02/20-ua-minutes.html#ActionSummary>

------------------------------

<trackbot> Date: 20 February 2014

ls
IER for Reflow SC

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JanMar/0038.html

<scribe> scribe: allanj

jr: reviews IERs

<Jan> When content is reflowed to stay on the screen such that horizontal
scrolling is not necessary, she can read and understand it.

<Jan> REMOVE When text is reflowed so it is in one column that doesn't
require horizontal scrolling or vertical scrolling to get to another
column, she can read and understand it.

gl: intent of 1.8.y last sentence - default reflow??

<Jan> Since most user agents default to reflowing content within the
horizontal dimensions of the top-level viewport, this success criteria
gives users the option to check whether the user agent's default horizontal
reflow might be sufficient for them.

<Jan> Since most user agents default to reflowing content within the
horizontal dimensions of the top-level viewport, this success criteria
gives users the option to check whether the default reflow (i.e. with
author specified absolute layout dimensions overridden) might be sufficient
for them.

Resolution: IER for 1.8.x accepted
IER 1.8.y

<Jan> Most user agents default to wrapping content within the horizontal
dimensions of the top-level viewport unless authors specify absolute layout
dimensions that necessitate extending the content beyond the width of the
viewport. This success criteria gives users the option to check whether the
user agent's default content wrapping might be sufficient for them.

<Jan> Most user agents default to wrapping content within the horizontal
dimensions of the top-level viewport unless authors specify absolute layout
dimensions that necessitate extending the content beyond the width of the
viewport. This success criteria gives users the option to check how the
content would appear without those author-specified absolute layout
dimensions.

Intent of Success Criterion 1.8.Y:

---

Content is not as easily usable if the user has to scroll back and forth
horizontally. This is an especially acute issue for users who find it
difficult or impossible to use the mouse to scroll and for users who find
it difficult to reorient when the content changes. Most user agents default
to wrapping content within the horizontal dimensions of the top-level
viewport unless authors...

scribe: specify absolute layout dimensions that necessitate extending the
content beyond the width of the viewport. This success criteria gives users
the option to check how the content would appear without those
author-specified absolute layout dimensions.

gl: technical issues. absolute values are used to prevent horizontal
scrolling. single line edit box with initial content
... the width might be set to the width of the content, and wouldn't expand

jr: sounds like making this to complicated
... you can imagine lots of other cases, this is the general case

gl: we have another SC related to window dimensions?

jr: don't think we have one like that
... things will fall apart on any device when zooming in or screen size
reach certain points.

Resolution: IER for 1.8.Y with Intent above in minutes is accepted.

<Jan> and single column reflow features
1.8.z

<Jan> REMOVE This is especially useful for scientific papers and
newsletters that are in that are multiple columns.

gl: re: Notes on these SC, make it clear that user can turn on/off the
feature

<Greg> "Note: Some layouts may become unusable if author-specified layout
is overridden. In this case, the user can turn linearization off and try
another strategy. It is recommended that user agents provide a convenient
way for the user to turn this behavior on and off."

<Greg> That would be for both notes.

Resolution: add "It is recommended that user agents provide a convenient
way for the user to turn this behavior on and off." to Notes for 1.8.X and
1.8.Z

<Jan> 1.8.Y Content is not as easily usable if the user has to scroll back
and forth horizontally. This is an especially acute issue for users who
find it difficult or impossible to use the mouse to scroll and for users
who find it difficult to reorient when the content changes. Most user
agents default to wrapping content within the horizontal dimensions of the
top-level viewport unless authors...

<Jan> ...specify absolute layout dimensions that necessitate extending the
content beyond the width of the viewport. This success criteria gives users
the option to check how the content would appear without those
author-specified absolute layout dimensions.

<KimPatch> Edits for clarity, example 1.8.x

<KimPatch> - Frank has repetitive strain injuries and uses speech input.
When Frank uses his mobile phone to read a web page, he needs to zoom in to
read an article on a web site. He configures his mobile phone so that text
reflows to always display zoomed content to fit in one column.

<KimPatch> Edits for clarity, example for 1.8.z

<KimPatch> - Ansgard has low vision and physical disabilities that make it
difficult to use the mouse. He needs to zoom in to read text. When using
his PDF viewer, he makes use of the zoom and single column reflow features
to reflow the content into a single column that fits the window.

Resolution: accept Kim edits of examples above
... IER for 1.8.Z accepted

rrsagent: make minutes

<Jan> "Note: Some layouts may become unusable if author-specified layout is
overridden. In this case, the user can turn linearization off and try
another strategy. It is recommended that user agents provide a convenient
way for the user to turn this behavior on and off."

<KimPatch> 1.8.X edit of stem for consistency, other stems good

<KimPatch> Allow Multi-Column Text Reflow

close action-947

<trackbot> Closed action-947.

<Jan> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2014/LCcomments.html

<Jan> JA: SB01: Done

<Jan> JA: SB02: Done

<Jan> JA: SB03: Done

<Jan> JR: SB02 may need some more detail...

SB02 - New SC and IERs added
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JanMar/0038.html

<Jan> JA: SB04: OK

<Jan> JA: SB05: Essentially done...needs example update.

<Jan> JA: SB06: ....

<Jan> JA: SB06:Which is also related to WD2
SB06:Which is also related to WD2

1.4.3 Text Spacing and Style (Globally): The user can globally set all of
the following characteristics of visually rendered blocks of text:(Level AA)

SB06: 1.4.3 and 1.4.6 BOTH mention "line spacing" - does it really need to
be listed twice? With different settings ranges? or maybe I've
misunderstood (which means others might misunderstand).

<Jan> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131016/results#xq6
MS01 web-based user agent

UAWG have discussed this extensively.

js: UAAG does not supersede WCAG, we augment as accessibility relates to
the UA UI

jr: should move reference to WCAG closer to the top of the document

js: moved reference to WCAG to the Implementing document, perhaps should
bring it back

http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20131107/#intro-wcag

<Jan> JR: Should go back into GL

move ATAG reference also

no objections

<scribe> *ACTION:* move the Relationship to WCAG from implementing to
guidelines, move Role of UA in Web Authoring from Implementing to
guidelines [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/02/20-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Error finding 'move'. You can review and register nicknames at <
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/users>.

<scribe> *ACTION:* Jeanne move the Relationship to WCAG from implementing
to guidelines, move Role of UA in Web Authoring from Implementing to
guidelines [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/02/20-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-949 - Move the relationship to wcag from
implementing to guidelines, move role of ua in web authoring from
implementing to guidelines [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-02-27].

<Greg> For MS01:

<Greg> "It may not be obvious to the user whether something is web-based or
native, so we see no substantial reason why one category be entirely
exempt. Rather, there should be exemptions from specific success criteria
where one category would encounter technical limitations. We trust the
commenter would agree that authoring tools accessibility guidelines would
apply to all authoring tools, whether...

<Greg> ...they are platform-specific or web-based, so the argument that web
apps should only adhere to WCAG is already discounted.

<Greg> "On the other hand, it may make sense to have a subset of the
guidelines that more narrowly targets web browsers, as opposed to
applications that merely use web standard document formats, etc. It is
possible to create targeted documents that call out only a subset of the
guidelines and success criteria, or filter them based on the feature set of
a particular product, without needing to...

<Greg> ...change the main guidelines document."

<Jan> +1

UAWG has added 2 new sections to the Guidelines document to reflect our
thinking on UAAG relationship to WCAG and ATAG

<Greg> "As the commenter suggests, it may make sense to have a subset of
the guidelines that more narrowly targets web browsers, as opposed to
applications that merely use web standard document formats, etc. It is
possible to create targeted documents that call out only a subset of the
guidelines and success criteria, or filter them based on the feature set of
a particular product, without needing...

<Greg> ...to change the main guidelines document."

<Greg> "As the commenter suggests, it may make sense to have a subset of
the guidelines that more narrowly target web browsers, as opposed to
applications that merely use web standard document formats, etc. It is
possible to create targeted documents that call out only a subset of the
guidelines and success criteria, or filter them based on the feature set of
a particular product, without needing...

<Greg> ...to change the main guidelines document.

perhaps add on: UAWG has added 2 new sections to the Guidelines document to
reflect our thinking on UAAG relationship to WCAG and ATAG

<Greg> "UAWG has added 2 new sections to the Guidelines document to clarify
the UAAG relationship to WCAG and ATAG."

+1

Resolution: Response to MS01: It may not be obvious to the user whether
something is web-based or native, so we see no substantial reason why one
category be entirely exempt. Rather, there should be exemptions from
specific success criteria where one category would encounter technical
limitations. We trust the commenter would agree that authoring tools
accessibility guidelines would apply to...
... all authoring tools, whether they are platform-specific or web-based,
so the argument that web apps should only adhere to WCAG is already
discounted.

As the commenter suggests, it may make sense to have a subset of the
guidelines that more narrowly target web browsers, as opposed to
applications that merely use web standard document formats, etc. It is
possible to create targeted documents that call out only a subset of the
guidelines and success criteria, or filter them based on the feature set of
a particular product, without needing to...

scribe: change the main guidelines document.

UAWG has added 2 new sections to the Guidelines document to clarify the
UAAG relationship to WCAG and ATAG.
MS01 separation UA from AT

<Greg> Proposed response:

<Greg> "Providing guidelines for software that does synthesized speech does
not equate with targeting AT, which as you've noted is already explicitly
exempted. For example, early versions of the Kindle provided text to speech
that was not targeting people with disabilities; if browsers provide speech
output for mainstream users, they should be making the speech
configurarable enough to be usable by...

<Greg> ...a wide range of individuals."

When an extension add speech output to the UA it becomes part of the UA and
should meet the requirements of 1.6

ja: Seems that 1.6 is very specific to text to speech. would be ok with
removing the GL

js: all of the SC have the clause "if synthesized speech is produced".
think we should keep it.
... there are auditory browsers and extension that are very useful to large
groups of people with disabilites.
... it is not separate AT.

Proposed Resolution - Providing guidelines for software that does
synthesized speech does not equate with targeting AT, which as you've noted
is already explicitly exempted. For example, early versions of the Kindle
provided text to speech that was not targeting people with disabilities; if
browsers provide speech output for mainstream users, they should be making
the speech configurarable...

scribe: enough to be usable by a wide range of individuals. When an
extension adds speech output to the UA, it becomes part of the UA and
should meet the requirements of 1.6

Clarified 1.6.3 to apply only to UAs that provide synthesized speech

Resolution:

Providing guidelines for software that does synthesized speech does not
equate with targeting AT, which as you've noted is already explicitly
exempted. For example, early versions of the Kindle provided text to speech
that was not targeting people with disabilities; if browsers provide speech
output for mainstream users, they should be making the speech configurable
enough to be usable by a...

scribe: wide range of individuals. When an extension adds speech output to
the UA, it becomes part of the UA, and, should meet the requirements of
1.6. UAWG clarified 1.6.3 to apply only to UAs that provide synthesized
speech.
 Summary of Action Items *[NEW]* *ACTION:* Jeanne move the Relationship to
WCAG from implementing to guidelines, move Role of UA in Web Authoring from
Implementing to guidelines [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/02/20-ua-minutes.html#action02]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* move the Relationship to WCAG from implementing to
guidelines, move Role of UA in Web Authoring from Implementing to
guidelines [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/02/20-ua-minutes.html#action01]

[End of minutes]

-- 
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964